ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:19 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:43 am
Posts: 144
Currently you can get 100% spell cooldown reduction and 0 CD for any spell but those with fixed CD with Quicken Spells, Suncloak, a fixdart amulet, and 2 egos on boots and diggers. Then you can just clear any map in absolute NO time with Hidden Resource, Dimensinal Step, and one instant damage spell (like Flash Freeze, or one of the damage runes), which is really ridiculous.
Obviously this is only available to adventurers, (and maybe possessors in 1.6 where one can find Suncloak on spell hit as random powers on staves?), who are not in consideration of balance, but this is just too ridiculous.

A quick fix is to just make spells with an origin cd of at least 1 always have at least 1 cd, no matter how high spell cooldown reduction the actor has.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:02 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:32 am
Posts: 21
I would be in favor of capping cool down reduction at 50% or something, just as there are damage resistance caps.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:25 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:42 pm
Posts: 515
darkgod wrote:
Adventurers are not mean to be balanced in any way :)
It's just a fun sandbox to muck around with.


And you say "Obviously this is only available to adventurers (snip) who are not in consideration of balance, but this is just too ridiculous."

I don't understand what is ridiculous about it if balance is a non-issue - not "a less important issue," just not in the running at all. What's the problem here? Of many classes in the game, you're picking the most flexible one and building and gearing it in a very specific way. If it bothers you, don't do it. If it's no fun for you, don't do it. If it's fun for you to play a "game" where there is no challenge at all, knock yourself out. I once made some arguments around Drem Oozemancers being able to generate infinite time in 1.5 specifically because I thought their capacity to do so should qualify them for a higher tier ranking (specifically, S class, able to beat Madness) than they were generally though to hold at the time, but I had no intention of actually playing out that game to its foreordained conclusion after I had unlocked the capacity to generate infinite time at level 30. (That capacity has essentially been removed in 1.6, because balance of non-Adventurer classes does matter.) If any class is capable of beating Madness, it's pretty much always going to be Adventurer.

I would be quite loathe to have any "fixes" to adventurer which could, under any circumstances, possibly impact any other class in the game. It would be like balancing gameplay around what's possible while using a cheatcode.

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My class guides: Possessor, Oozemancer


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:05 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:23 pm
Posts: 23
All that’s really needed to abuse this is an instant way to deal damage - the instant move is just gravy. Being able to burn down the end bosses with no challenge at all is a problem.

Possible to fix this as a rider on the two infinite resource talents that while active, the minimum cooldown is 1.

Having this loophole constrains further design on items and skills that reduce cooldown as well as classes that use instant effects, so it’s worth fixing as Adventurer isn’t the only class potentially affected.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:37 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 170
SDY wrote:
Having this loophole constrains further design on items and skills that reduce cooldown as well as classes that use instant effects, so it’s worth fixing as Adventurer isn’t the only class potentially affected.


You can't just say "potentially affected" and be done with it.

Drem oozemancer bonus turns combo was addressed in 1.6. No other race+class (excluding adventurer, ofc.) combos has "unlimited power".

More so it is only possible because of cherry picking top talents with synergies across all classes:
1) Quicken Spells - archmages only,
2) Suncloak - Anorithil/Sun pala only, requires super high spellpower to reach 40%.
3) Double quickening/spellbinding ego (or zemekkys broken hourglass - which is a very rare east specific drop, afaik) on one item - you can play hundreds of hours without finding one. It is a miracle that recent madness winner managed to get it.


Therefore potential maximum on archmage/ano/sun pala is:
- boots with 20% (super rare);
- pickaxe with 20% (super rare);
- amulet with 10% (very rare);
- 30-38% from quickening OR suncloak;

Total 80-88% which is great, but you have been able to do that a few years prior this post.

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Wyrmic "The static pain" - easy training dummy kill
So, apparently, this is why we have Fixed cooldown talents


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:08 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:43 am
Posts: 144
ok, now I'm going to say that archmage itself can also potentially get 100% spell cd reduction.
Quicken Spell - 30%
gears - 30%
lv5 Suncloak procing from a T5 staff with a certain ego - 40% (you can just cast Channel Staff again and again to proc this)

and then just phase door to the enemy behind the corner and spam your damage rune.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:39 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 170
Quote:
lv5 Suncloak procing from a T5 staff with a certain ego - 40% (you can just cast Channel Staff again and again to proc this)


After rolling "imbued" prefix, it's something like 1/145 to pick Sun cloak, then there is a chance to get talent level 5.

Channel staff won't hit friendly creatures/yourself, AAD doesn't work either since 0 damage hits won't register, your options limited to hitting yourself or summoned spiders from unique sack.

Quote:
and then just phase door to the enemy behind the corner and spam your damage rune.

The time you teleport in LoS of someone with disperse magic, you would be stripped of up to 10 magic sustains. It's not like the game automatically become a leisure stroll after you have all pieces.

While it's theoretically possible, realistically you can't pull this out without item vault and hundreds of hours on other characters beforehand. And if you are so dedicated, I don't see a problem to reward you for that.

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Wyrmic "The static pain" - easy training dummy kill
So, apparently, this is why we have Fixed cooldown talents


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:21 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:43 am
Posts: 144
ok, channeling staff was my fault, but they have 4 cd3 beams. Against things with magical sustain removal some timing tricks will be needed.
Now I'm going to start collecting items and preparing to have some fun :D


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