ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:33 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:38 pm
Posts: 287
I know some of this has been mentioned before, but this would make Rak'shor's Cunning worth taking in some cases. So if you died with this prodigy, you would get all non-undead racial points refunded (maybe this would be skipped if you changed from your starting race to Lich and changing to Lich allows you to keep existing racials) and be able to choose what undead you turn into (currently Skeleton or Ghoul). If this prodigy also works if you are already undead, then you would stay the undead you already are (so Skeleton, Ghoul or Lich).

As this is likely an After Death Revive, maybe a special case could be made that all abilities on cooldown become available again, all negative effects except zone auras are removed, and all sustains that were on at the time of death are kept on. Enemies would stay in the state they were when you died. So, Rak'shor's Cunning could be a special case for After Death Revive, better than what is suggested here (after all, you used a prodigy slot):

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=48163

Obviously, Lich wouldn't be a Rak'shor's Cunning option to convert to from a living race - the change from living to Lich would still be covered by the normal processes. However Rak'shor's Cunning may be able to give an existing Lich another life (in excess of Ring of the Dead) if this prodigy works on already undead characters.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:04 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 1:58 am
Posts: 769
Would it be too good if you kept your old racials and also got the new ones? Because that's pretty much how it works for Cornac right now and I don't think it's OP.

Edit: The refund of course would no longer happen.

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Last edited by bpat on Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:35 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:38 pm
Posts: 287
Well, one or the other. Either all points get refunded or you keep existing racials and get the undead racials for Ghoul or Skeleton. Not sure if you should be able to put more points into the living racials though.

Still, if changes such as these were implemented, it certainly would make Rak'shor's Cunning a much better pick.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:59 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:41 pm
Posts: 296
It's a prodigy, it should give prodigy equivalent powers! As it stands, it's an extra life were you are weaker after you use it.

I think from a balance perspective, it's pretty hard to balance it so that players pick it as a single use life saving tool so it should rather be powerful by itself. Although things are probably going to improve because undead races dependency on runes will be less of a penalty in 1.6 with the inscription/stun reworks in the way I suppose. It's still a little weird.

A few things that could happen to make the prodigy good, assuming racial generics are refunded (hard to make it not bad when you lose so many generic points :D ) :

- The change from living race to undead race gives the player some late game advantage because they are late game powerhouses so using the prodigy would mean a power spike. Or in reverse, the living race itself is strong early and weak late game so switching is an advantage. This one requires quite some changes to the undead races themselves and nothing much for the prodigy itself.
- Refund the prodigy point itself on death
- Make the player extra strong on death, stronger than normal undead races. For example, as was mentionned, keeping the living racials they had instead of losing them. Or make the prodigy give extra benefits to undead races (and you could even allow undead players to pick it for those benefits). Maybe make them stun immune or other stuff like that?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:27 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:55 am
Posts: 684
It's just a poorly conceived prodigy.

There is a tendency to bleed benefits across classes and racial groups (everything seemingly has minions now) such that there is little unique about anything anymore.

Instead, this prodigy should offer an undead-only benefit. In my opinion, it should be a new undead racial tree. You can keep your old stuff, if you want, but now gain an entirely new category to play with.

Personally, I think it should offer some otherwise unavailable bonuses that would create new and unique synergies and whatnot.

My other suggestion is to make it convert a living creature into a vampire, with a new racial tree. You keep your old one but can't add any new points into it, and then gain a vampiric racial category.

I think this ought to include: penalty to light resistance, massive increase in heal mod and regeneration rate (like 50% and 10 per turn at 5/5), and the ability to gain "life drain" from melee attacks.

Make the abilities good, seeing as how it's a prodigy, but don't refund any talent points.


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