ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:33 am 
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Uruivellas

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Some time ago I posted http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=40300. I'm no longer convinced that those specific ideas were optimal but I do think it's worth revisiting.

So, here are my suggestions for a category to replace Combat Techniques:

Unstable Summons: This is a collection of powerful and expensive summons which, when used, place a random non-unstable summon onto cool-down.

Locked at 1.2 at level 10.

However, each of these summons, except for Behemoth, has a longer range than the 5 for normal summons. They start at five but gain an additional range at 3, 5, and 7.

Update: Each of these summons has a fairly short duration and this encourages the use of Summon Control to make the most of them. More so, they have tactical synergy with other summons.

I think the fragile Sprite might be the most dangerous from a player's perspective.

1. Winter Bear: Cost 16 equilibrium and has 14 cool-down. 4-7 turn duration.

High constitution and strength. Highly resistant to cold, and freeze immune.

With Grand Arrival: Grants 50% stun/freeze and 30% cold resistance to you and summons in range.

With Wild Summon: Gains Battle Cry.


2. Forest Sprite: 18 equilibrium with 18 cool-down. 3-6 turn duration.

This Sprite can teleport with Dreamwalk, use Sleep, and Hallucinogenic Moss. Relatively fragile but 135% global speed and high evasion.

With Grand Arrival: Grants 15% bonus to global speed to you and minions in range.

With Wild Summon: Gains a radius 3 blind ability.


3. Lightning-Wasp infested Tree: 22 equilibrium and 16 cool-down. 4-7 turn duration.

This is a stationary tree that does minor lightning damage when hit but it quickly spawns lightning-wasps akin to the trees found in the Old Forest.

With Grand Arrival: Reduces stun and daze resistance.

With Wild Summon: Gains Static Field.


4. Behemoth: 26 Equilibrium with 28 cool-down. 3-6 duration.

Range: 3

This has higher strength, constitution, armor, and armor hardness than any other summon. However, it suffers a 50% global speed penalty.

This summon always blocks line of sight and if summoned on top of an enemy, will automatically push the enemy back (even if there's a line of enemies... it always makes space if it's at all possible).

Immune to knock-back, poison, bleeding, cuts, pins, fears, and suffocation effects. 50% resist all but virtually no capacity to evade attacks or critical hits. Sized as +2 over big.

So slow that it doesn't attack on the turn of its initial summoning like every other summon, however it always attacks 3 adjacent tiles at once.

With Grand Arrival: Becomes impenetrable. Any beams, cones, arrows, etc. that would normally penetrate an enemy do not against the Behemoth. Essentially acts like a terrain feature such as a tree or wall.

With Wild Summon: Gains "You Shall Be My Weapon" prodigy.

Lastly, I want to again suggest getting rid of the "Detonate" ability as it's thematically inappropriate. Why would a wilder blow up his animal allies?

I suggest replacing it with:

Release:

This is an active skill that releases a summon, thus removing it from the playing field and takes a random summon off cool-down just as Detonate does, except it doesn't do any damage.

Instead of damage, it extends the duration of all in-play minions by 3, when maxed, and reduces 2 equilibrium for each summon in play.

Costs no equilibrium and takes 1 turn to cast.

Well, what does everyone think?


Last edited by Delmuir on Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:57 am, edited 20 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:03 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:55 am
Posts: 690
The goal of this is to make the Summoner more fun to play by offering synergies and build options while eliminating a completely useless tree.

The Behemoth would be a hugely valuable defensive tool, especially against enemies that can dish out one huge burst of damage such as Atamathon or corruptors.

The Winter Bear would allow for synergy with the Rimebark, thus making it useful.

The Sprite is a utility option but a decent one as it provides speed and status effects.

The Lightning-Wasp Tree would also largely be for mobility (combined with Phase Summon) and defense (as are most summons) by spamming the enemy with lightning wasps. I would guess that they shouldn't count against your summon capacity.

These summons would have great utility (using the spawned wasps for "teleporting" would be really valuable.) but their random-summon cool-down penalty would actually provide some interesting strategic problems and/or options. This would make the summoner more than just spamming Drakes all day.


Last edited by Delmuir on Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:18 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:03 pm
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*Slow clap*

I like the look of this tree. I always thought Rimebark was super cool, then I got it and found out it had friendly fire. This would give a nice combination for earlyish game, Rimebark area denial/Winter Bear murder for low cunning stats, as well as letting you temporarily wall off an area reasonably effectively with only two summons in case you get surrounded or something.

And that Behemoth... Mm...

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:48 am 
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Uruivellas

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Why thank you! That was exactly the plan.

I believe it creates a lot of flexibility and variety, something sorely lacking with the Summoner.

Don't under-estimate the utility of the lightning wasp tree (as the wasps are fast) in combination with Phase Summon. It could be a really good escape. Also, add in the speed and CC of the Sprite and you have some decent combos.

As for the Behemoth… oh man, I'm actually proud of that idea. It'd totally wall-off a single corridor but even in open-space, the ability to stop a beam or cone (at least block part) would be a huge deal. I just imagine having that against Atamathon… hell yeah! Combine it with the Sprite and a movement infusion for you and you can, for a while, stay hidden behind a mobile-wall. Sounds good to me.

Now, would anyone like to code it? Ha ha… maybe make an add-on?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:50 am 
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Uruivellas

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Ah shit, I forgot. Nothing ever takes up more than one square. (Except the alt Sandworm Lair giant burrowers.) I was picturing a huge, 2X2 monstrosity of a wall suitable for cover even in more open spaces but hard to use in a narrow corridor.

Silly me, forgeting that mosquitoes and fully grown dragons share the exact same amount of space.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:53 am 
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Uruivellas

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Yeah, I originally wanted it to take up two squares but I passed on that idea as I really wanted something that could wall-off an area to allow for rest, etc.

Having said that, I'm actually not opposed to making it two squares in size, thus making it not available for that original purpose. That'd be a neat limitation.

Still, I thought that a neat counter to the Behemoth-wall would be from a mage just teleporting it away, ha ha. It'd be easier than trying to kill it.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:00 am 
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Uruivellas

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That's what players do, not enemies.

And honestly, I'd love to see some larger creatures, but this isn't the place for that. It'd honestly be a huge overhaul, considering everything that'd have to grow in size. (Or shrink, in a few.) Though it'd cripple anyone who likes You Shall Be My Weapon! Suddenly, wearing all those "giant' or "of giants" or whatever the +size ego is makes you impossible to maneuver around and a much larger target.

That being said, it'd make Wyrmic's Burrow so much fun. Swap to a full set of giant gear, become 5X5 squares, and mow through the entire level in a single cast of Burrow and Lightning Speed.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:07 am 
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Uruivellas

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Aye, it would be a huge overhaul… still, it would be fun.

I've been kicking around improving, without overpowering, the Summoner for a while now and I'm actually fairly proud of this category idea. I think the placing of a random summon on cool-down is a good idea and would make placing 5-points in Nature's Balance useful.

More so, the longer cool-down on the Behemoth makes it hard to spam and thus abuse.

Ultimately, I think the Sprite is the weak-link in this set but I think it's useful enough to justify inclusion. Specifically, I'm thinking of using the Speed boost with the Minotaur or the CC effect with the Spider.

More so, having more summons in general would make getting a huge Cunning stat valuable. Imagine having ten summons out: Drakes, a Hydra, a Behemoth, a Sprite, a turtle, a spitter and a wolf. You'd be lowering resistances and setting your army loose. Or, do it with a Rimebark and a Bear granting freeze immunity to your Drakes…

Also, it'd create an alternative to going anti-magic or at least using the anti-magic shield (as equilibrium would be a problem). Of course, you could still use it and just keep meditation on all the time which would lower your damage and make you ultra-defensive.

Oh, the fun you could have...


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:12 am 
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Uruivellas

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Delmuir wrote:
3. Forest Sprite: 16 equilibrium with 18 cool-down. 5-10 turn duration.

This Sprite has little in the way of offensive capabilities but it can teleport. It primarily casts slow and blind in AoE. High dexterity and evasion.

With Grand Arrival: Grants you and all active summons a bonus to speed, up to 15%.

With Wild Summon: grants you and all active summons a bonus to evade, up to 15%.


"Casts slow and blind in AoE."

Two of the most debilating status debuffs in the game. And this is the weak link? Delumir, you have some odd notions. The main issue I could see with it is fargility. High evasion means nothing against an enemy who has attacks that don't check against it.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:19 am 
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Uruivellas

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Well yes, that was exactly what I meant by "weak link." I was thinking that the Sprite could essentially be one-shotted by most any attack that doesn't check against evade. It'd be a priority kill if you saw it on the field.

Obviously, if it survives then it'd be dangerous. There are even combos with the Celestial/Light tree to give it a bit of a shield such that maybe it could shrug off one decent hit. You could have a magic-based Summoner using whatever that prodigy is...

All of this was geared to the idea of creating more options for Summoner builds other than the current anti-magic only.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:21 am 
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Uruivellas

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Prodigy? I am aware of no prodigy that would make summons more survivable. There's the blight prodigy that adds a lot of offensive spells to summons, and Bathe in Light from an Anorthil escort reward, but I don't know of any prodigy that makes summons tougher.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:27 am 
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Uruivellas

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I meant Blighted Summoning.

My thought was that someone could build a Summoner and pump up the Magic stat in order to use said prodigy. Then, get the Celestial/Light tree to make use of said magic stat for the shield from the Bathe in Light skill.

That combo might keep the fragile Sprite alive long enough to use its abilities. That was my thinking.

I don't want the Sprite to "break" the summoner by being overpowered so I figured I'd make it fragile but still leave a window for buffing it up a little, although just a little.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:29 am 
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Uruivellas

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Perhaps give it a Cauterize style smear effect? Or give it a powerful damage shield, but it can't use its specials while the shield is up? (Reducing it to bumps.) That might actually weaken it, since it basically removes it from the field in terms of use but still takes up a summon slot.

Really, Summoners could use a few more ways to buff summons on the field.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:36 am 
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Uruivellas

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I don't disagree that Summoner's lack of buff abilities makes them a bit dull but I always thought that the set-up of the Necro made it more suitable to that play-style, although no one really liked my suggestions on that class, ha ha.

Thus, utilizing Wild Summon and synergies, I think it can make the Summoner more interesting and fun without adding a bunch of ways to buff the summons.

I tend to think of the Summoner as a fundamentally strategic and defense-oriented class and I don't want to mess with that, just improve it.

As for the Sprite… I'm thinking of it as a bit of a one-turn kind of summon. Odds are that it dies almost immediately, which is fine by me. Just throw it into the Overpowered Wyrm room and then toss in a Drake, a Bear, and a Rimebark… use Detonate, and then repeat with a Golem, Behemoth, Minotaur, and Wolf combo… good times.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:39 am 
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Uruivellas

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This does suffer from something that always makes me hesitant to play a class. Mid game stategies.

Doomed probably has it the worst (Mental Tyranny is so powerful! Just have fun once you get it halfway through the Orc Prides because you need a damn prodigy to make it work), but a lot of classes have powerful comboes and strategies that are nice and powerful, but require a lot of points in high tier abilities to work, meaning you get them around level 25 at the earliest. Admittedly, Summoner is more than capable of living up til that point, but it still seems rather late to have a Wild Summon based build.

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