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how exactly should wyrmics be fixed
Poll ended at Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:26 am
okay melees not great but that should be fixed in the dragon part all the other hybrid melee classes make up their melee with their secondary powers leave melee as is or just minor tweaks 7%  7%  [ 5 ]
alright add a melee boosting tree maybe a general dragoniness one that lets you wield a two hander with a sheild or something, maybe give rush unlocked, insert third option. 13%  13%  [ 9 ]
alright lets just dump the melee trees it's already got and start from scratch 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
okay gonna rework the dragon bits while trying to keep the same general ideas for the draconic aspects 14%  14%  [ 10 ]
throw the entire draconic part of the class in the trash and remake it maybe with the trees geared more to specific uses of draconic powers instead of specific dragons or do habitats of dragons, or (insert idea). 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
okay keep the current setup of the class being more active than passive with some tweaking dependent on above 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
this class should have way more passive ability's from being dragon man and that shall be fixed (making draconic powers more passives/sustains than active abilitys) 17%  17%  [ 12 ]
make the class geared more toward specializing in a draconic aspect than just getting a bunch of them 15%  15%  [ 11 ]
gear it for being all the dragons 13%  13%  [ 9 ]
other post below 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 71
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:19 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:55 pm
Posts: 708
There's sand drakes in the sandworm tunnels.
Code:
name = "sand-drake", display = 'D', type = "dragon", subtype = "sand",

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:44 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5952
Okay, here is the first draft of my alchemist infusion style Wyrmic:

These are the basic talents. They gain different effects based on which aspects you have active.
Ideally you could have multiple aspects active at once, or you could choose to focus in one or two aspects.

Drake Claw: Weapon attack. Weapon damage that scales with level.
Drake Bite: Grapple attack. Weapon damage on initial attack. Duration scales with level.
Drake Roar: Nova attack. Confuses. Duration and radius scales with level.
Skydive: Telerush attack. Range scales with level. Side effect radius scales with level.
Drake Spit: Ranged attack. Range scales with level.
Drake Breath: Cone attack. Range scales with level.
Drake Scales: Defensive defence.
Drake Spines: Offensive defence.
Drake Movement:
Element Control:

Aspect effects:
Sand
Claw: Partial conversion to physical damage. Conversion scales with level. Adds slow. Hits adjacent creatures at high levels.
Bite: Inflicts bleeding. Any creature killed when affected by Bite will be swallowed, restoring equilibrium and life.
Roar: Quake effect.
Skydive: Pins surrounding creatures.
Spit: Slowing mud.
Breath: Blinding sand.
Scales: Physical save.
Spines: Disarms enemies by getting their weapon stuck in scales?
Movement: Burrow.
Element: Earth Bite: The earth reaches up and grabs enemies, doing physical damage and pinning.

Fire
Claw: Partial conversion to fire damage. Conversion scales with level. Adds armour penetration. Sunder armour at high levels.
Bite: Inflicts burning. Disarms.
Roar: Blinding/antiLOS smoke?
Skydive: Infernoish
Spit: Devouring Flames.
Breath: Igniting Fire.
Scales: Can block fire.
Spines: Burns adjacent enemies and adds lite.
Movement: Trailing flames.
Element: Spreading Flames: Burning creatures ignite the ground under them. Creatures standing in flames start burning.

Storm
Claw: Partial conversion to lightning damage. Conversion scales with level. Adds accuracy. Faster attack speed at high levels.
Bite: Inflicts lightning damage over time. Lowers stun resistance.
Roar: Static Field like effect, maybe some sustain disable?
Skydive: Causes a short lightning storm.
Spit: Lightning Beam?
Breath: Dazing Lightning.
Scales: Can block lightning. Projectile defense.
Spines: Random mini chain lightnings
Movement: Lightning Speed
Element: Tornado

Cold
Claw: Partial conversion to cold damage. Conversion scales with level. Extra damage to frozen creatures. Iceblock piercing at high levels.
Bite: Inflicts cold damage over time. Slows enemies.
Roar: Shatters all iceblocks for extra damage.
Skydive: Starts an ice storm.
Spit: Frozen Feets.
Breath: Freezing Cold.
Scales: Can block cold.
Spines: Slows attackers.
Movement:
Element: Ice Wall.

Corrosive
Claw: Partial conversion to acid damage. Conversion scales with level. Increased crit chance. Adds blindness at high levels.
Bite: Inflicts acid damage over time. Corrodes armour.
Roar: Cures debuffs from self.
Skydive: Acid Cloud.
Spit: Acidic Spray.
Breath: Corroding Acid.
Scales: Can block acid.
Spines: Corrosive Mist.
Movement:
Element:

I'm thinking there are too many actives, but then I notice that there are only 8 actives, so maybe its just not enough passives. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:45 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5952
Now arranged into categories:

Drake Melee
Drake Claw: Active. Basic weapon attack.
Drake Movement: Active. Small movement speed buff?
Drake Bite: Active. Grapple attack. Weapon damage on initial attack. Duration scales with level.
Skydive: Active. Blindside like attack. Range scales with level.

Drake Ranged
Drake Spit: Active. Ranged attack. Range scales with level.
Drake Roar: Active. Nova attack. Confuses. Duration and radius scales with level.
Element Control: Active. ???
Drake Breath: Active. Cone attack. Range scales with level.

Sand
Sand Drake Aspect: Sustain. Adds these effects to base talents.
Claw: Partial conversion to physical damage and slows.
Movement: Burrow effect.
Bite: Any creature killed when affected by Bite will be swallowed, restoring equilibrium and life.
Skydive: Pins target.
Spit: Radius 1 slowing mud.
Roar: Terrain rearrange and disarm.
Element: Earth Bite: The earth reaches up and grabs enemies, doing physical damage and pinning.
Breath: Physical damage.
Sand Drake Scales: passive. Physical resistance and physical saves. Increased block amount.
Sand Drake Spines: passive. Disarms melee attacks by getting their weapon stuck in your scales. Adds extra physical damage to weapon hits.
Sand Wyrm Aspect: Sustain. Adds these effects to base talents.
Claw: Hits adjacent creatures.
Movement:
Bite: Does bleeding damage.
Skydive: Radius Pin.
Spit: Adds physical damage.
Roar: Adds physical damage.
Element: Knocks creature aside when you hit them.
Breath: Blinds.

Fire
Fire Drake Aspect: Sustain. Adds these effects to base talents.
Claw: Partial conversion to fire damage and has increased armour penetration.
Movement: Trailing Flames.
Bite: Disarms.
Skydive: Ignites the ground under the target.
Spit: Radius 1 flames on the ground.
Roar: LOS blocking smoke.
Element: Spreading Flames: Burning creatures ignite the ground under them. Creatures standing in flames start burning.
Breath: Fire damage.
Fire Drake Scales: passive. Fire resistance and magical saves. Can Block fire damage.
Fire Drake Spines: passive. Burns adjacent enemies. Adds Lite. Adds extra fire damage to weapon hits.
Fire Wyrm Aspect: Sustain. Adds these effects to base talents.
Claw: Sunders armour.
Movement: Wider trail.
Bite: Does burning damage.
Skydive: Radius Flames.
Spit: Ignite enemies.
Roar: Blinds nearby creatures.
Element: Spreads flames as well?
Breath: Ignites.

Storm
Storm Drake Aspect: Sustain. Adds these effects to base talents.
Claw: Partial conversion to lightning damage and has increased accuracy.
Movement: Lightning Speed.
Bite: Lowers stun resist.
Skydive: Electrocutes the target.
Spit: Lightning Beam.
Roar: Static Field like effect.
Element: Tornado.
Breath: Lightning damage.
Storm Drake Scales: passive. Lightning resistance and defense. Can Block lightning damage.
Storm Drake Spines: passive. Random mini chain lightnings. Adds extra lightning damage to weapon hits.
Storm Wyrm Aspect: Sustain. Adds these effects to base talents.
Claw: Attacks faster.
Movement:
Bite: Does lightning damage.
Skydive: Lightning Storm.
Spit: Blinds.
Roar: Disables sustains.
Element: Increase Tornado radii.
Breath: Dazes.

Cold
Cold Drake Aspect: Sustain. Adds these effects to base talents.
Claw: Partial conversion to cold damage and does extra damage to frozen enemies.
Movement: ???
Bite: Slows.
Skydive: ???
Spit: Inflicts frozen feet.
Roar: Shatter effect.
Element: Ice Wall
Breath: Cold damage.
Cold Drake Scales: passive. Cold resistance and Armour. Can Block cold damage.
Cold Drake Spines: passive. Slows melee attacks. Adds extra cold damage to weapon hits.
Cold Wyrm Aspect: Sustain. Adds these effects to base talents.
Claw: Iceblock piercing.
Movement: ???
Bite: Does cold damage.
Skydive: Starts an ice storm.
Spit: Extra cold damage.
Roar: Shatters do radius 1 cold damage.
Element: Icewall does radius 1 cold damage.
Breath: Freezes.

Acid
Acid Drake Aspect: Sustain. Adds these effects to base talents.
Claw: Partial conversion to acid damage with increase crit chance.
Movement: ???
Bite: Corrodes Armour.
Skydive: Small acid cloud.
Spit: radius 1 acid.
Roar: Cures debuffs.
Element: ???
Breath: Acid damage.
Acid Drake Scales: passive. Acid resistance and mental saves. Can Block acid damage.
Acid Drake Spines: passive. Blinds melee attacks. Adds extra acid damage to weapon hits.
Acid Wyrm Aspect: Sustain. Adds these effects to base talents.
Claw: Blinds.
Movement: ???
Bite: Does acid damage.
Skydive: Big acid cloud.
Spit: Disarms.
Roar: Cures more debuffs?.
Element: ???
Breath: Corrodes armour.

How does that look?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:14 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 481
@HP
My opinion on this direction: same problems as with alchemist. Since you can only have 1 aspect active at time, all of these aspect trees are anti-synergetic, you're going to have ~10 trees in which you're going to put points only in 3 - base melee, base ranged and 1 aspect. All other trees are just a waste for you and you are not going to use them in this build at all. Whole build diversity is going to be a 1-tree choise predefined a priori. Overall the class is going to be an alternative vesion of alchemist without golem.

To remedy these, I suggest going multiple aspects at the same time, but no more than, say, 3. Call it almost-multi-hued wyrmic if you wish.

I also really really liked ideas of antimagic and other exotic aspects instead of basic elemental ones.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:29 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:45 pm
Posts: 210
yeah the infusion thing is probably more trouble than its worth


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:00 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5952
To clarify, this was designed to allow multiple aspects and have them work at full strength.
So if you wanted to be multi hued, you could get all the drake aspects enabled and Drake Claw would be like Prismatic Slash.
Or you could level two aspects up to Wyrm level, and frostfire breath things to death.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:08 am 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 481
Hmm if you allow multiple sustains to be activated simoltaneously, that may get pretty interesting indeed. Can you make a test version with 2 basic and 2 sample trees?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:10 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5952
Suslik wrote:
Hmm if you allow multiple sustains to be activated simoltaneously, that may get pretty interesting indeed. Can you make a test version with 2 basic and 2 sample trees?

Before or after I patch Mindslayers? :P

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:24 am 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 481
Well of course mindslayers are #1 priority tome development course, always! Don't be silly, nothing should be done until my favourite class is properly balanced ._.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:59 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:45 pm
Posts: 210
Quote:
okay melees not great but that should be fixed in the dragon part all the other hybrid melee classes make up their melee with their secondary powers leave melee as is or just minor tweaks 7% 7% [ 5 ]
alright add a melee boosting tree maybe a general dragoniness one that lets you wield a two hander with a sheild or something, maybe give rush unlocked, insert third option. 13% 13% [ 9 ]
alright lets just dump the melee trees it's already got and start from scratch 6% 6% [ 4 ]
okay gonna rework the dragon bits while trying to keep the same general ideas for the draconic aspects 14% 14% [ 10 ]
throw the entire draconic part of the class in the trash and remake it maybe with the trees geared more to specific uses of draconic powers instead of specific dragons or do habitats of dragons, or (insert idea). 4% 4% [ 3 ]
okay keep the current setup of the class being more active than passive with some tweaking dependent on above 6% 6% [ 4 ]
this class should have way more passive ability's from being dragon man and that shall be fixed (making draconic powers more passives/sustains than active abilitys) 17% 17% [ 12 ]
make the class geared more toward specializing in a draconic aspect than just getting a bunch of them 15% 15% [ 11 ]
gear it for being all the dragons 13% 13% [ 9 ]
other post below 6% 6% [ 4 ]
Total votes : 71


okay results are in and the kind of remake the people want for wyrmic is

expansion of the existing melee options

retuning of the draconic aspect mechanic instead of replacement of it

primarily passive aspects

as for gearing the class for either draconic specialization or diversification unlike the others theirs no overwhelming majority here so people would probably be happy enough either way.

considering we have three or so different addons for proposed wyrmic changes that seem to more or less conform to this do you guys think their should be a round two poll for even tighter requirements and what options do you think their should be right now I've got.

whether it should be more of a shamanic class or just stick with the melee combo

shared cooldown breaths or independent with some other kind of limiting mechanic like having to charge them up or that air using thing.

should wyrmic keep fungus or replace it with class specific recovery options

general I am a dragon man tree and whether it should be passive buffs like gray did it or an accumulation of the general draconic abilitys like swallow, wing buffet, and bellowing roar

and whether draconic abilitys should scale with physical stats like str and con primarily or with mental ones like wil and mindpower.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:37 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:39 am
Posts: 1280
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Having some small specific polls about individual aspects rather then on a whole might be a good idea. To think of perhaps some options for changing Breath Attacks specifically for example, some option ideas:

-Minor Rework to Breath Attacks but essentially keep current talent structure (Like adjust Equilbrium, Cooldown, Talent Scaling, etc).
-Major Rework to Breath Attacks that keeps the current talent structure but make Core Changes (Add a Air Resource Cost or have shared Cooldowns, etc).
-Massive Rework to Breath Attacks that throws the current talent structure out the window (Unified Breath Attack Talent, etc).

-Minor Changes to Supporting Talents that Affect Breath Attacks with no additional Talents (Update Wyrmic Guile, Chromatic Fury, etc).
-Major Changes to Supporting Talents that Affect Breath Attacks with additional Talents (Insert the Charged Breath Attack Talent, etc).
-Massive Changes to Supporting Talents that Affect Breath Attacks and how they work (Enable 'Spamming' through a Talent, Adjust Air Resource Talent, etc).

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:14 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:45 pm
Posts: 210
yeah I don't know how to make a bunch of different polls without making a bunch of threads and as much as wyrmic needs a remake we already have way too many threads on the topic.

so I'm trying to keep it to ten options max and just get as many of the differing view points on the class as I can in one shot to try and get all of the different directions people are going with this class grouped together.

also trying to keep it to general ideas since these things won't necessarily be independent of each other like if breaths goes the linked cooldown route that talent will probably be the fourth in the general dragon tree but if it ends up going the independent breaths without fungus route that talent could be the new recovery replacement talent.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:00 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:52 pm
Posts: 1884
Quote:
expansion of the existing melee options

retuning of the draconic aspect mechanic instead of replacement of it

primarily passive aspects


As a note, this is basically what my current Wyrmic tweaks addon does.

Multiple low impact attacks have been retooled as weapontalentdamage melee, draconic aspects have been retuned so that you can specialize in physical or mindpower more easily, and it creates six decent impact passive effects on six of the first Wyrmic talents.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:49 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:45 pm
Posts: 210
yeah already said most addons have these and your addon is already acknowledged as better than the current class and about as good as it'll get while sticking to tuning the existing class alone.

also only mindstar users care about mindpower specialization the weapon user majority are fine with just will and str and unless you gave breaths wil or mindpower scaling people will just stick with strength for breaths.

and that weapon power in talents gives them a miss chance they should not have I mean their good enough to actually consider using now but still miss chance is out of place.

now can we get back to the current topic of do we need another poll on wyrmics and if so what options.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:25 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:39 am
Posts: 1280
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with making numerous threads (or more polls) that relate to a topic if each of those threads is distinctly different enough to warrant being opened and offer something to use.

The Wyrmic Class has so many different aspects that can approached or addressed in multiple ways that there is more then enough room for multiple threads to be opened. Even a thread just relating to additional aspects outside of the class itself (Dragons) would likely be distinct enough that it could warrant its own thread. What's more, there is no shortage of additional unique and interesting ideas that could be included or fitted into revamping or redesigning the class.

At the very least, I think with the Wyrmic class, posters would probably be more content with multiple and 'manageable' threads then a sparse few clusterfucks. In just the past month there has been 200+ replies on the Wyrmic class in the various threads started since Suslik's made his first post - and there has been 2 threads opened up pertaining to just fixing the class. I don't think opening up a few more threads (or polls) pertaining to very specific elements of the Wyrmic discussion that seek to provide benefit to improving Wyrmics.

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