ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:39 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:28 am
Posts: 42
I'm trying my best to play unspoiled, and I finally got the TC. The rumors one reads when squinting at even slightly spoiled threads finally make a little more sense. (It is impossible to not brush up against spoiled stuff.)

My initial reaction, while mostly positive, is that the first char to find it (happens to be a dwarf AM) is at a weird disadvantage as all that junk she's left laying around in the first 6 or so dungeons can't even be neatly grabbed and TM'ed just by pushing Z since it has already been recognized. Doing it manually would be classic scumming, and maybe even more scummy than an analog from T2, since it in the old game we would have been scumming for new stuff, not to find old stuff we didn't really want.

Obviously this first character's plight doesn't matter much since we all know she'll be dead soon enough! (used the BoL on the first encounter with the guard you-know-where.) I mention it because it was among my first thought once I figured out the big picture of what it does---and I'm not exaggerating that it really doesn't matter....

Anyway, as soon as I got it, I started a new char. with the chest just to check out the implications, so this is very much a first impression. (Looking forward to getting back to seeing how far my AM gets since this is the furthest I've been yet!)

Here they are:

1. I'm a little aggravated that I can't wield something directly from the chest. Seems like this would be something everyone needs? Find something obviously better than what you have (maybe nothing as is the case in the very start of the game) and you want to put it on. Now I have to put it into inventory and then put it on?

I gave a quick search on the forums, but didn't see this raised so I apologize if my search was deficient.

Anyway, it seems like the Chest has been out since at least B36 anyway, so it must not have been a first-order problem.

Not sure if I'm missing something.

2. I don't like that I don't have the option to move things from inventory to the TC.

This is somewhat problematic since maybe I think I will TM it, but want to delay the final decision. Plus, seems like putting things in the TC gives you the opportunity to make one big decision later, but TM-now requires an extra set of keystrokes. Select it, decide to TM-now and then confirm.

Seems easier if I could just say 'put in TC' and then make all those decisions later.

3. I like that the lore is now read automatically, but I'm not crazy about how the auto-explore continues in the background. Sometimes it is a good idea to (try to) stop auto-explore (if you can remember what key to push!) before you get into trouble. Things in the game get a little busy when you are inspecting a lore and @ is scribbling around. (Again these are literally first impressions, so I'm not sure if I'm missing something here too.)

4. This next one is tangential to the TC. Before the TC I was dealing with encumberance issues fairly regularly. This is a part of the game, and I'm not sure how much it is intended to be fundamentally altered by the TC or how the issues are mitigated. No matter what, the way the opacity and placement of the pop-up item details makes it very hard to weigh the options. (sorry for the pun.) I can't always see the encumberance cost through the text in the descriptions.

I face similar issues on the talent/stats screens. The talent tree list interferes with reading the char. stats, defense and power stats.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious about setting the opacity in the menus?

5. I mentioned this is another thread some time back, but while I'm on an inventory-screen-comment-roll I'll say it here. I would be psyched if I could push w or d to wield or drop instead of enter and then face the menu. This was something we did in T2 and I still after quite a lot of hours playing T4 push these keys trying to wield or drop things to no benefit. Obviously now that the TC exists, I would suggest a key that would put the item in the chest. TM-now doesn't really make sense to me, but I just got the thing so maybe I'll understand that soon enough.

6. Finally, I'll mention that there is a significant effect on the nature of the gameplay when the TC mixes with Z. The suspense and thrill of reaching a new item is displaced from where it used to be. I'm not suggesting anything awful has happened, just that there is a change and I'm just beginning to understand the implications.

I used to reach and item and decide whether to pick it up or carry on. I used to see a \ or a } and wonder if it was going to be a good one. Now, it gets stashed away and I might end up back in the mix before realizing that I've got something cool to wear to my death. In that case I will need to put it in my inventory and then go to my inventory and put it on.

7. I know I typed finally already... The issues in point 6 might be resolved by having a 'settings' screen for the chest? Or maybe for auto-explore? I'm not sure where the issue lives really. Things like binary options, 'stop auto-explore on lore' or even 'stop auto-explore on ego item' or 'stop auto-explore on artifacts.' Maybe the issue is autoexplore and not the TC, but I really can't tell yet.

Either way, there might be some use in being able to slow down what might turn into something of a TC+Z blur.

I regret if my comments are just repeats of others. I did a cursory search just to see if the points have been raised, but I try not to get too spoiled and I didn't see anything that jumped out. Plus once I started typing I got carried away.

If I'm wrong about that and beating dead horses please accept my humble apology.

I hope my comments can't be read as complaints!

The game is great.

Just wanted to share my impressions.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:25 am 
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Retired Ninja

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 3311
About you first character, everything you left on the floor in the first dungeons should have despawned.

On point 2. Things in the chest don't have any weight. Letting players move items back and forth would make encumbrance meaningless.

3 I think should be an option as you mention at the end. I like how things are now but I could see how someone might prefer the game pauses so they read a note.

5 I guess I don't understand? Are you wanting wield and drop hotkeys to work inside of the inventory menu? That would be nice. Pressing them outside the menu right now pulls up a wield or drop specific inventory menu as of now but having those hotkeys work other places would be good.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:59 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:53 pm
Posts: 44
edge2054 wrote:
Are you wanting wield and drop hotkeys to work inside of the inventory menu?

I'm pretty sure that's what he wants, yes. I too kept trying to push w/d until I got used to the all-purpose enter.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Cornac

Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:28 am
Posts: 42
On the despawning, very cool. Like I suggested the first thing I did was try out a new char.

On the inventory issue with d and w. I not sure the confirmation by tekrunner exactly coincides with edge2054's interpretations---although I think tekrunner and I might be thinking about the same thing.

I'm not suggesting that the wield menu pops up in place of the inventory menu, but instead that the item is actually wielded or dropped.
I also admit that perhaps something like this might feel like a somewhat inconsistent treatment of otherwise universal concept, while at the same time the way things are now seems to require lots of extra keystrokes.

On 2, Aha. I just assumed I could drop an item and then put it back in the chest. Your point implied that this strategy wouldn't work so I gave it a go in the game and now I understand.

This does open up the possibility for unfortunate mistakes, but the consequence is just speeding up an inevitable decision. The way the TC deals with previously inventoried items is a clever solution and nicely done.

On this basis I must withdraw my point 2 as it is stated. I was missing this important fact.

However, I think it raises another approach, since I might argue that the TC doesn't make encumberance meaningless, just meaningless until you leave the level. This seems like what the TC is designed to do anyway, is it so bad that players would move things back and forth? The benefit would only last as long as they are on the level. I'm not sure at this point.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:29 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:31 pm
Posts: 1246
Location: South Africa
The TC is getting some changes for B38.

But you can wield from the chest by pressing "w"ield/"w"ear, but it's not available from the "i"nventory key.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:37 pm 
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Loremaster

Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:18 pm
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Location: London, England
I think the chest as it stands is too designed around late game play, where you do tend to hoover up the dungeon and only keep one or two items. Early in the game you end up keeping or equipping a lot of what you pick up, but the current interface makes this cumbersome.

So yeah, I agree with pretty much all of your suggestions. Partly the problem is with autoexplore not stopping enough.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:56 pm 
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Cornac

Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:28 am
Posts: 42
Thanks Candarel I checked out how this works. Perhaps I don't use the 'w' menu enough.

I guess the big idea is that if a menu pops up it seems like having more options would be pretty inexpensive from the development side (not that I know how the game works---just guessing) and that the more relevant options the better.

I see now how 'w' and 't' and 'd' work in a different way than 'i'.

They may not be as flexible, but they do resolve some of the trouble I face with transparent---I know the game has a name for them but I can't remember so---I will call them pop-up windows.

Part of it might be me getting stuck in my habits and not seeing using 'd' when I want to drop stuff and so on. Going to 'i' makes it a little more complicated.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:13 pm 
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Cornac

Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:28 am
Posts: 42
One more thing...

Doesn't it make sense to know the market (or transmogrification) price of the item?

I've got something in my cart now that I might not know if I should hang on to or not---if it is worth a ton of gold I might just zap it. If not, maybe I'll hang on to it and see if it might come in handy.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Low Yeek

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:41 am
Posts: 5
Hmm...

My only wish running as an archmage was the ability to send items directly to the storage chamber. I often find much needed gear that I can't keep because of the weight.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:21 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:29 pm
Posts: 115
My experiences on point 6:
Whenever I pick up a potentially interesting item with a new character, I always stop auto-explore and check wether it's useable. Whenever I don't feel the need to check the item, I wouldn't have had any exitement without the way the TM works either. More than that: since the annoyance acompenied with useless items has decreased, my enjoyment from the good stuff has been increased.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:10 pm
Posts: 1262
Hmm... A shortcut or inventory tab that displayed the items in chronological order (last pickup = first on list) would be handy. Or just a tab for items that haven't been inspected yet.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:10 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:28 am
Posts: 42
Here's one other thing---

I am not crazy about the big sack heading on the inventory page includes the TC. I guess these are the first impression of a player who spends a relatively large amount of time rolling up new chars!

I think all my issues are pretty clearly exactly what was said above, that the TC probably works a lot more effectively later in the game.

How long has the TC been around? (since which beta)


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