ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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 Post subject: Wyrmic discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:27 pm
Posts: 243
Someone mentioned that this thread about a Wyrmic improvement should be in ideas: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=48667&p=230663

So let's throw our cents in here.

About nixing the elemental division. What if instead certain talents would give you different elemental properties like Chants now gives you three at the first talent, for those who still want a certain element focus? For example, a talent that gives you a group of sustains that pertain to a certain Dragon's elemental aspect. This could influence everything from bump attacks to breaths. Wyrm breath could even be it's own tree under this similar to Stone Warden's Stone Spikes talent.


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 Post subject: Re: Wyrmic discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:20 am
Posts: 288
I think that wyrmics were pretty good in 1.1
then they got buffed for some reason in 1.2 or 1.3, then they got the undead drake category with EoR, and they're gonna get another new category in FC

if you want to buff wyrmics, make necrotic breath be not awful and revert tornado to the 1.1 version, except maybe with the addition that it won't hurt you
beyond that, I'd want to wait for 1.6 when they fix weapon damage to suggest anything else so that I can more accurately compare weapon damage to the damage dealt by tornado and breaths


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 Post subject: Re: Wyrmic discussion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:35 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:07 am
Posts: 133
Wyrmic redesign again, the most enduring topic in this forum.

You can take a look at this post viewtopic.php?f=39&t=41766&start=30. I think it contains the most interesting redesign concept. I love the way it offers interesting in-tree synergies yet retaining the jack-of-all-trade feel of the original class, too bad it was not coded ultimately.


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 Post subject: Re: Wyrmic discussion
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:08 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:45 pm
Posts: 204
anonymous000 wrote:
Wyrmic redesign again, the most enduring topic in this forum.

You can take a look at this post viewtopic.php?f=39&t=41766&start=30. I think it contains the most interesting redesign concept. I love the way it offers interesting in-tree synergies yet retaining the jack-of-all-trade feel of the original class, too bad it was not coded ultimately.


got a redesign proposal that was coded that I really liked.
https://te4.org/games/addons/tome/grays ... ird-wyrmic
its too old to work on the latest version but you can see some of the talents here real quick.
https://te4.org/characters/144027/tome/ ... 13d0793a01

personally I think wyrmic just needs a ground up rewrite theirs - all synergy between any of their talents and their most notable for having a grab bag of individually good talents and having fungus without having to go zigur.


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 Post subject: Re: Wyrmic discussion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:49 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:16 am
Posts: 16
I will admit that I brought up "fixing" the Wyrmic when I kept seeing it ranked as a low-tier class. As I said in the original thread, I'd like to see all the classes be at least B tier (I think that's where Temporal Warden is nowadays), not necessarily S tier (Paradox Mage?).

Although there is the question of what the tier system is based on. I'm guessing ease of clearing Insane Adventurer, although I have some misgivings about that, since that difficulty apparently diminishes the importance of saving throws, which I understand are crucial to the game plan in general. Never mind that DarkGod has enough trouble with Normal without an Archmage as is, by his own admission (unless my information's dated...); how's he supposed to test for the higher difficulty levels?

One of the thoughts that came to mind is, should we be trying to preserve the stamina/equilibrium hybridization? The Temporal Warden used to be stamina/paradox hybrid, but is now pure paradox. Someone brought up the idea of rewriting the wyrmic into using mindstars not with psiblades, but psiclaws. (Fortunately, that's yet more incentive not to give a single copper to Zigur.) Assuming pure reliance on Willpower, that could make managing the wyrmic's attack values easier. (You'll still want Strength for Heavy Armour Training, though...)


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 Post subject: Re: Wyrmic discussion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:09 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:19 am
Posts: 1148
Location: Yeehaw, pardner
I do think that wyrmic would be better off if the weapon + stamina trees were removed altogether and they became a full equi user. Sorta like cursed, where all the weapon attack skills work with any combo of weapons (sword and board, 2h, sword and mindstar, dual mindstar, etc).

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 Post subject: Re: Wyrmic discussion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:00 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:16 am
Posts: 16
Which oddly brings up a thought about whether or not arcane blades, shadowblades, and stone wardens somehow suffer from being hybrids. I'll probably have to recheck the last to see how/if their mana and equilibrium affect each other, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Wyrmic discussion
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:47 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:07 am
Posts: 133
Skyknight wrote:
I will admit that I brought up "fixing" the Wyrmic when I kept seeing it ranked as a low-tier class


I think any fixes should be about boosting the fun factor though. Doomed ranks quite low in the power tier, but ranks high in the fun tier, and thus it does not need much rework (maybe some more trees should be added to diversify build choice though). ToME is a single-player game so class balance in terms of power is not an issue.

Micbran wrote:
I do think that wyrmic would be better off if the weapon + stamina trees were removed altogether


Yes I agree. Common combat talent is a relic of the past and we don't see it anymore in the newer classes. Wyrmic have enough combat talents in Wyrmic trees, and instead of such common trees they could benefit from a couple of specialization trees to diversify build choice


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 Post subject: Re: Wyrmic discussion
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:04 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:27 am
Posts: 79
Did I have a stroke or something?


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