ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:35 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:18 pm
Posts: 28
jenx wrote:
dadito wrote:
1 extra hit max per weapon per turn

It is instant now to compensate


instant? then that makes a massive difference :-)

I goota try that out, with adventurer and TK :-)


Not really a buff since it had a long duration (which also got nerfed) and you were always pre-casting it.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:13 am 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 7:00 am
Posts: 574
Regarding anything at all applying to Sawrd: that weapon is so unbelievably unbalanced that when trying to find a way to make it functional and still maintain the same concept I actually pondered commenting it out all together. More choice/functionality for implementing the mechanic is great, Sawrd existing or not. If it needs buffs after this change that can totally happen. Of course not everything needs to be balanced against everything else. It's totally fine to have some races, classes, or items be different from each other. Things just need to be internally balanced to some degree and that thing is (soon was, hopefully) egregious.

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<astralInferno> you suffer so that others may suffer in the intended way

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:20 am 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
Dude, sawrd is funny and comes too late to be relevant without the vault. Let it stay.

e: literally the earliest it can spawn without being on a randboss and thus killing you is the room of death and thus the only things left are the prides (who cares) and high peak (nothing can incentivise fighting things in high peak)

e: e: if this is about the proc nerf on sawrd, it's irrelevant because it still does the highest damage out of any weapon in the game by an order of magnitude and AB was using earthen missiles anyway with it

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<Shibari> You're full of shit
<darkgod #tome> ster is a troll
<Sheila> and ster, i do agree with you on most things game-related, but do try to not be such an ass!
<mex> your posts lead to people like me being abused and murdered


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Magical Girl

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:36 am
Posts: 428
I'll keep pushing to have sawrd removed because it has no business being the strongest weapon in the game and not even part of a prodigy, it shouldn't have existed in the first place

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"As dying is one of the leading causes of death, you should avoid dying." -rekenner

"I'll bond with a cactus until my buttcheeks touch the sand before I play nethack again" -Gagarin


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:41 pm
Posts: 299
You know how dangerous it is to wield a chainsaw. Just make sawrd have 1% chance to hit yourself in melee instead of the intended target for realism and it'll be fine!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Magical Girl

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:36 am
Posts: 428
Mordy wrote:
You know how dangerous it is to wield a chainsaw. Just make sawrd have 1% chance to hit yourself in melee instead of the intended target for realism and it'll be fine!

Realism has no place here most of the time, particularly if it's done solely to hinder design :P

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"As dying is one of the leading causes of death, you should avoid dying." -rekenner

"I'll bond with a cactus until my buttcheeks touch the sand before I play nethack again" -Gagarin


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
Sheila wrote:
I'll keep pushing to have sawrd removed because it has no business being the strongest weapon in the game and not even part of a prodigy, it shouldn't have existed in the first place

But the strongest weapons in the game are things like Blood-Letter, thought-forged dwarven steel battleaxes of massacre, The Truth and Genocide. (special mention: mercy) None of those require a prodigy because your character hasn't become unstoppably OP by taking one yet.

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<Shibari> You're full of shit
<darkgod #tome> ster is a troll
<Sheila> and ster, i do agree with you on most things game-related, but do try to not be such an ass!
<mex> your posts lead to people like me being abused and murdered


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:34 pm 
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Magical Girl

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:36 am
Posts: 428
ster wrote:
Sheila wrote:
I'll keep pushing to have sawrd removed because it has no business being the strongest weapon in the game and not even part of a prodigy, it shouldn't have existed in the first place

But the strongest weapons in the game are things like Blood-Letter, thought-forged dwarven steel battleaxes of massacre, The Truth and Genocide. (special mention: mercy) None of those require a prodigy because your character hasn't become unstoppably OP by taking one yet.

If one accepts your definition of 'strongest', ie "what matters before prodigies" then there's probably some truth in what you say.
The post L30 game is way easier than the pre-L30 game for just about any build. but that's not generally what strongest means, at all.
Utility is great, but when you can burst things dead with no skill, effort or thinking you may as well do that instead.

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"As dying is one of the leading causes of death, you should avoid dying." -rekenner

"I'll bond with a cactus until my buttcheeks touch the sand before I play nethack again" -Gagarin


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:59 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:50 am
Posts: 43
I think the PES nerf is a little overdone. 10 turns meant it was down about half the time. 18 turns means that MAD classes are just boned.

PES was a good prodigy for a lot of builds, but limited uptime and the limitation of not affecting most weapon scaling builds meant that it had a valuable niche.

Now? Only if you're playing Shalore.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:22 am 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
However, you should be playing Shalore anyway


imo PES didn't really need a nerf either, it was fairly niche compared to the prodigies you could throw on literally every weapon character (AM, Flex, Naloren) and did have limited uptime

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<Shibari> You're full of shit
<darkgod #tome> ster is a troll
<Sheila> and ster, i do agree with you on most things game-related, but do try to not be such an ass!
<mex> your posts lead to people like me being abused and murdered


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:18 pm 
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Cornac

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:50 am
Posts: 43
ster wrote:
...imo PES didn't really need a nerf either, it was fairly niche compared to the prodigies you could throw on literally every weapon character (AM, Flex, Naloren)...

This was the biggie from my perspective. PES seemed designed to boost builds Mindpower builds or really MAD builds. Mindpower builds can have problems landing statuses without it and MAD builds need every help they can get.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:09 pm
Posts: 108
ster wrote:
imo PES didn't really need a nerf either


Basically, an interesting prodigy died because Shalore will never really get nerfed?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:04 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
visage wrote:
ster wrote:
imo PES didn't really need a nerf either


Basically, an interesting prodigy died because Shalore will never really get nerfed?

Shalore had nothing to do with PES

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<Shibari> You're full of shit
<darkgod #tome> ster is a troll
<Sheila> and ster, i do agree with you on most things game-related, but do try to not be such an ass!
<mex> your posts lead to people like me being abused and murdered


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:37 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:19 am
Posts: 1148
Location: Yeehaw, pardner
Probably more ogre than shalore. But even then, I guess people didn't like all this talk of "build Str on mages because PES."

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
Micbran wrote:
Probably more ogre than shalore. But even then, I guess people didn't like all this talk of "build Str on mages because PES."

That wasn't even very good advice, you didn't get that much spellpower out of PES

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<Shibari> You're full of shit
<darkgod #tome> ster is a troll
<Sheila> and ster, i do agree with you on most things game-related, but do try to not be such an ass!
<mex> your posts lead to people like me being abused and murdered


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