ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:35 am
Posts: 704
Rods such as acid bolts, fire balls, etc.?

These things don't seem to useful to me... They're too rare and expensive to be of use in the early game, and don't do enough damage to be useful in the mid game.

Any ideas on making them more useful? I don't like the idea of buffing them, maybe reduce the rod tip's mana cost instead? Is it even worth making them more useful?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:51 am 
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Reaper

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2003 11:49 pm
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Location: West Virginia
Rods aren't as useful as wands or staves in the early game. Wands and staves always work- at least until you encounter monsters that can drain charges. The only rod I normally use is Trap Detection, usually only early on. Sometimes I carry Disarming for clearing vaults.

I would be in favor of good offensive ones, but also making sure that you need a high Magic Device level to get them to work reliably. As it is, there isn't much reason to increase Magic Device. Of course, the elemental ones aren't going to be much use at high levels because everything is resistant. A version of Strike or Manathrust would be better if you were interested in more extensive mods.

I just won with a munchkin Alchemist (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13729) and I had several rods: Restoration, Healing, Recall, and Disarming. I had used Trap Detection and Detection earlier before I got the spells. i could make any rod tip, so this was all I found useful.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:29 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:35 am
Posts: 704
Yottle wrote:
Rods aren't as useful as wands or staves in the early game. Wands and staves always work- at least until you encounter monsters that can drain charges. The only rod I normally use is Trap Detection, usually only early on. Sometimes I carry Disarming for clearing vaults.


I find rods of Detection to be invaluable for non-casters... Vital, in fact. I've yet to ever encounter a rod tip of Disarming outside of the Black Market...

Quote:
I would be in favor of good offensive ones, but also making sure that you need a high Magic Device level to get them to work reliably. As it is, there isn't much reason to increase Magic Device. Of course, the elemental ones aren't going to be much use at high levels because everything is resistant. A version of Strike or Manathrust would be better if you were interested in more extensive mods.


The current rod magic system doesn't match the Schools system, but I'm not sure that's such a bad thing. Actually I'm not sure the Schools system is such a good thing, seeing as most non-combat Mage builds wind up looking the same; which defeats the purpose of having a skills system.

BTW, I think it would be nice to get rid of the rod tip minigame. Rods should come pre-infused with one spell or another, like in V (or empty, and only of use to Alchemists). I would keep the different rod egos though.

Quote:
I just won with a munchkin Alchemist (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13729) and I had several rods: Restoration, Healing, Recall, and Disarming. I had used Trap Detection and Detection earlier before I got the spells. i could make any rod tip, so this was all I found useful.


Healing? Interesting. One of the things I've noticed in ToME is that, past the mid game, anything that doesn't heal you fully in one turn might as well not heal you at all.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:32 pm 
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Reaper

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2003 11:49 pm
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Location: West Virginia
What about more artifacts? Home Summoning is really cool and I use it whenever I find it (except for Antimagic types, of course).

I usually use rods for tasks that are not time-dependent: disarming, recall, detection, and so on. i wouldn't trust them to fire during a battle. The healing one I was carrying was for rapid healing while hiding before resuming battle. Some other high level utility spells that would be useful would be Vision, Greater ID, Remove Curse, and Ent's Potion. Everyone needs these, and it is a pain to have to carry scrolls or potions. If you did this and tossed out the elemental damage ones I would be very happy.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:26 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:35 am
Posts: 704
Yottle wrote:
What about more artifacts? Home Summoning is really cool and I use it whenever I find it (except for Antimagic types, of course).


Sounds good to me. Maybe Havoc could be a (powerful) artifact.

As I said, I'm not so keen on Schoolifying the rods, however...

Quote:
I usually use rods for tasks that are not time-dependent: disarming, recall, detection, and so on. i wouldn't trust them to fire during a battle. The healing one I was carrying was for rapid healing while hiding before resuming battle. Some other high level utility spells that would be useful would be Vision, Greater ID, Remove Curse, and Ent's Potion. Everyone needs these, and it is a pain to have to carry scrolls or potions. If you did this and tossed out the elemental damage ones I would be very happy.


Magic Map and *Identify* sound like good ideas. Remove Curse, not sure, that's not exactly needed often (in my experience).

Ent's Potion... Hmm. Maybe separate rods of Satisfy Hunger and Berserk?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:32 am 
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Reaper

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2003 11:49 pm
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Location: West Virginia
Remove Curse is necessary if I am using Mormegil, which I do with any swordmaster. Otherwise it is usually just a minor annoyance that you can fix in town.

There are randarts that carry Satisfy Hunger, but it is a pain to *ID* enough to find one. There are also randarts that carry Genocide and ones that restore sanity. A rod of *ID* would make randarts much more useful by simplifying finding the good ones.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:48 pm
Posts: 482
Yottle wrote:
Remove Curse is necessary if I am using Mormegil, which I do with any swordmaster. Otherwise it is usually just a minor annoyance that you can fix in town.

I think carrying scrolls for this is a suitable "penalty" for having access to Mormegil. (IMO, of course.)

Yottle wrote:
There are randarts that carry Satisfy Hunger, but it is a pain to *ID* enough to find one. There are also randarts that carry Genocide and ones that restore sanity. A rod of *ID* would make randarts much more useful by simplifying finding the good ones.

From a convenience standpoint I'd agree, I think.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:30 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:35 am
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OTOH, it turns out there are already rod tips of Enlightenment (functionally the same as Magic Mapping apparently).


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:55 pm 
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Reaper

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2003 11:49 pm
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Location: West Virginia
Lord Estraven wrote:
OTOH, it turns out there are already rod tips of Enlightenment (functionally the same as Magic Mapping apparently).

I think that there might be rods of *Enlightenment" that light up the whole level, like a potion of Enlightenment or a high level Vision spell.


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