ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:26 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:35 am
Posts: 704
I'm trying to figure out how to deal with different deities. Usually I just default to Tulkas, since it's really easy to stay in his good graces; but his benefits are kind of boring on the gameplay side. And I've never managed to get piety that high with him.

Eru
- Your piety will just go up, for the most part, as long as prayer is turned off.
- OTOH there's the icky penalty to sharp weapons. Probably doesn't matter for e.g. Swordmasters, but rather troublesome for less powerful melee characters, I would think.
- Not sure what else to say, other than the obligatory mention of the dragon-corpse trick...

Manwe
- Always have prayer turned on, because there is no benefit to keeping it off (and you can't gain piety without praying).
- Put a few points into prayer right away, if possible? I think? Does this impact piety gain/loss?
- Start killing dragons in the mountains as soon as you can, to keep your piety up.
- After that, dunno. There are evil monsters all over the place, so maybe just pick dungeons full of trolls and whatnot.
- Maybe play as an elf? No idea how useful that is.

Tulkas
- Keep prayer turned on and kill lots of evil monsters. Tulkas doesn't think too hard about ethics, I guess.
- Again, not sure re Prayer skill vs. piety loss when praying?

Melkor
- As per Tulkas, I guess.
- Play as an Orc or a Troll? Or maybe a half-Ogre?

Yavanna
- Yavanna's benefits are the most interesting IMO, but she's also the hardest by far to keep happy.
- Play as an Ent, I guess? If you dare? I hate that speed penalty, though innate ESP is pretty awesome.
- It works to repeatedly charm friendly monsters, but that's a bit exploitative (in several ways).

Any specific methods?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:08 pm 
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Reaper

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2003 11:49 pm
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Location: West Virginia
Yavanna is the only one I have never been able to use effectively. Maybe there is some strategy where you can get enough experience to start charming monsters without having first pissed her off so much that you can't cast her spell, but I haven't gotten it to work. There is an enormous piety boost from the Lothlorien quest if you can finish that. Of course, the fire-damage-to-trees penalty means you need it.

Melkor is trivial. Kill lots of stuff while praying. Good monsters are better- bands of novice priests and paladins are great for the early going. When I am playing a Melkor-worshipping sorceror (to get Genocide) I get my piety up to 15,000 by visiting Moria or the Paths of the Dead and using Fireflash on bands of orcs, trolls, or undead.

I don't know of any alternative to the dragon-corpse hack. To be useful, piety has to be maxed out.

I haven't used Tulkas or Manwe much. I often convert my Melkor-sorcerors to Manwe after destroying the ring. At higher levels there are so many evil monsters to kill that keeping in their good graces is easy.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:13 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:57 am
Posts: 53
Whoa, I don't even know what this is in reference to.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:14 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:19 am
Posts: 1064
Location: Yeehaw, pardner
There's this thing called Tome 2. That's what it's referencing.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:59 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:38 pm
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From what I remember if you get charm from another source you can gain Yavanna piety without spending it, making her less absolutely horrible. I don't think it was in mindcraft, though, so you'd have to play some sort of mage to get the mind school and the mind school is pretty bad.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:05 am 
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Reaper

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2003 11:49 pm
Posts: 1714
Location: West Virginia
I decided that a Yavanna-worshiper fell into the same class of characters as a Bard- an interesting challenge, but not something to do to improve my competitiveness.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:29 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1413
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
Lord Estraven wrote:
I'm trying to figure out how to deal with different deities.

Well, my god spoiler is good through v2.3; I can't attest to anything that might have changed since 2.4.

Lord Estraven wrote:
Manwe
- Always have prayer turned on, because there is no benefit to keeping it off (and you can't gain piety without praying).

Actually, Manwe piety decreases slightly faster while you're praying. Not by much, but in the early game I usually try to make an effort to only pray while I'm killing evil monsters.

Lord Estraven wrote:
- Put a few points into prayer right away, if possible? I think? Does this impact piety gain/loss?

Not AFAICT.

Lord Estraven wrote:
- Start killing dragons in the mountains as soon as you can, to keep your piety up.
- After that, dunno. There are evil monsters all over the place, so maybe just pick dungeons full of trolls and whatnot.

In my experience, Manwe piety will usually sink in the Downs, but will get back above sea level by the end of Orc Cave, and will generally be okay from there. (Of course, that's based on my policy of clearing every level; YMMV.) By mid-Moria, I'm usually gaining piety fast enough that I don't even bother turning prayer off anymore.

Lord Estraven wrote:
- Maybe play as an elf? No idea how useful that is.

Anything elven helps a little with Manwe, depending on your WIS.

Lord Estraven wrote:
Tulkas
- Keep prayer turned on and kill lots of evil monsters. Tulkas doesn't think too hard about ethics, I guess.

With Tulkas, you only lose piety while you're praying, and you still gain some piety for killing evil monsters if you're not praying, though significantly less than if you are. Generally I follow the same policy as with Manwe: in the early game, keep prayer off except while you're killing, and eventually you'll be gaining piety fast enough that you can pray full-time.

Lord Estraven wrote:
Melkor
[...]
- Play as an Orc or a Troll? Or maybe a half-Ogre?

None of those help. Avoid anything elven, though, as they hurt significantly with Melkor.

Lord Estraven wrote:
Yavanna
[...]
- Play as an Ent, I guess? If you dare? I hate that speed penalty, though innate ESP is pretty awesome.

ESP? [sound F/X: source diving] Ah, sense orc/troll/evil, starting at level 20. Yeah, that's pretty good. And yeah, being an Ent does help a bit with Yavanna. As for the speed, yeah, you'll spend a lot of the early game with Explor cranked up to "running", until you get to the speed-boosting items in Deathwatch.

Yottle wrote:
Melkor is trivial. Kill lots of stuff while praying.

No need to pray, actually; you get the same piety either way.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:31 pm
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Yottle wrote:
Melkor is trivial. Kill lots of stuff while praying.

No need to pray, actually; you get the same piety either way.

I am in the mind of confusion , what is meant by praying in the gameplay? Are there really a need to pray or this is just an expression?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:08 pm 
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Reaper

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2003 11:49 pm
Posts: 1714
Location: West Virginia
morrism wrote:
Yottle wrote:
Melkor is trivial. Kill lots of stuff while praying.

No need to pray, actually; you get the same piety either way.

I am in the mind of confusion , what is meant by praying in the gameplay? Are there really a need to pray or this is just an expression?

Praying is a state your character is in. You can toggle between praying and not praying with the "p" command. In general, if you are praying your god will do something good for you under certain circumstances. However, for most gods it also means that your piety takes a hit.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:31 pm
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Thanks for the clarification.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:26 am 
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Halfling

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:59 am
Posts: 93
Location: Wetzlar, Hessen, Germany
Yavanna
Just did a nostalgic trip back to 2.35. In my opinion a Yavanna Ent Bard is a very valid combination. An early mimic cloak (3 skill points) and a drum and you are done. Piety is not needed for the start, you need it late game. Start with maximal strength and dexterity to have 3 attacks with a dagger. When having a drum you get lot of strikes versus slowed enemies, and some of the strikes will hit when turning from coward while slowing to berzerker when striking . Don't waste too much points into combat, you will get a spell and a song to boost hit chances and damage. Unlocking tunneling/rock-throwing for some ranged attack against eyes. Spend 3 more skill points for symbiosis and some extra damage/hitpoints.
At level 26 mimic (if lucky with a FF), music and prayer should all be at 30.
Try to get an extra arm wielding a mage staff with a plus to your much needed mana reserve. Get heroism from the ent potion, have a lurker as symbiont, ... and your piety is -10000 or so. Who cares - the big undeads and demons will now change that quickly.


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