ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 4:12 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5676
Have been unable to identify a way to reduce my list of proposed artifacts by looking for overlaps. However, I did notice that Radiance and Threads of Fate overlap a bit. Maybe reduce Radiance to t4.

I have managed to put 5 of them on the chopping board for not scoring 3 stars with at least two classes though.
These are:
Stop, t1 mace.
Entropic Robe, t1 cloth armour.
Phasing Cloak, t1 cloak.
Time Warp Boots, t1 light boots.
Frozen Flames, t2 arrows.
They do have niche uses and there aren't many t1 artifacts, so they could just be buffed instead of dropped.

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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:36 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 3:45 pm
Posts: 828
One thing I'd consider is how many existing artifacts there are. We already have a problem with niche artifacts cluttering up the loot table so I think new ones should be general purpose and try to fit a gap. When I say a gap, I don't mean like 'oh there's no fire themed T3 artifact waraxe with a psionic/nature source, must make one' but more the glaring slots like high level belts and lites.

Some things I'd note in particular are how we already have 15 arti daggers of varying levels, themes and sources so I'd be very hesitant to add more. Same with weapons in general really, probably as they're more exciting to write. In comparision there's a serious lack of high level belts. We only have 3 of them on T4-5, some of which are quite niche. Same deal with lites. High level helms are quite rare too.


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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:26 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:28 pm
Posts: 393
Out of curiosity, are any specific weapon types (lumping shields in here as well) under-represented?

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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:42 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5676
I did write up the artifact database so I could check for where obvious gaps are.
Since there are already 15 artifact knifes I've only got two suggested new ones. One at t1, which is okay as there is only 1 t1 knife so far. The other at t5, which is less okay as there are already 4. However, Temporal Warden needs an offhand weapon and there are only two item types for off hand weapons, knife and mindstar. I can't justify leaving Temporal Warden's best off hand artifact as a t3.

Stats on number of artifact weapons
Type, total, t1/2/3/4/5.
Arrow, 6, 0/1/0/2/3.
Battle Axe, 6, 0/1/1/2/2.
Gauntlets, 8, 1/0/3/1/3.
Gloves, 7, 2/3/1/0/1.
Greatmaul, 10, 1/2/3/1/3.
Greatsword, 9, 0/1/3/2/3.
Knife, 16, 1/3/6/2/4.
Longbow, 6, 1/1/1/0/3.
Longsword, 16, 0/0/2/7/7.
Mace, 4, 0/1/1/0/2.
Mindstar, 16, 1/4/4/4/3.
Shield, 15, 1/1/2/4/7.
Shots, 4, 0/0/0/4/0.
Sling, 3, 0/0/2/0/1.
Staff, 15, 1/3/5/1/5ish.
Trident, 3, 1/0/0/1/1.
Waraxe, 4, 1/0/1/1/1.
Whip, 6, 1/0/2/1/2.
To compare with non weapons:
Amulet, 16, 1/4/4/4/3.
Belt, 8, 1/2/2/1/2.
Cloak, 12, 0/1/4/2/5.
Cloth Armour, 13, 2/3/2/4/2.
Heavy Armour, 3, 0/0/2/0/1.
Heavy Boots, 4, 0/0/1/0/3.
Helm, 10, 0/3/2/4/1.
Leather Cap, 7, 0/0/5/0/2.
Light Armour, 10, 0/4/2/0/4.
Light Boots, 7, 0/3/1/2/1.
Lite, 9, 1/1/2/1/1 +3 unspecified.
Massive Armour, 9, 0/1/2/2/4.
Ring, 15, 0/4/3/3/5.
Tools, 15, 5/2/1/4/3.
Cloth Hats, 4, 1/0/2/1/0.

Where possible I've tried to slot weapons into the gaps visible above. Unfortunately Temporal Warden doesn't have a large range of existing artifacts. Would it help if I detailed the justification behind each artifact I've suggested?

To summarise types and tiers of my suggestions:
Amulet: t1, t2.
Arrow: t2, t3.
Battleaxe: t1.
Belt: t2, t3, t4.
Bow: t2, t4.
Cloth Armour: t1, t3.
Cloak: t1, t3.
Heavy Armour: t4.
Gloves: t1, t3, t4.
Greatmaul: t4.
Greatsword: t5.
Knife: t1, t5.
Leather Armour: t1, t4.
Leather Cap: t1, t2, t4.
Light Boots: t1, t3, t3.
Lite: t2, t4.
Longsword: t1.
Mace: t1.
Massive Armour: t3.
Mindstar: t2, t3, t3.
Ring: t1.
Staff: t2, t4.
Tool: t3, t4.
Waraxe: t2.
Whip: t4.

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Last edited by HousePet on Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:10 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:33 pm
Posts: 307
"there are only two item types for off hand weapons, knife and mindstar"

Make a new item type?

a light(weight) mace and some other things like a kama could work off hand.


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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:04 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 3:45 pm
Posts: 828
That's a handy list to see. Also consider that 1h/2h weapons and hands tend to be quite interchangeable, so I've grouped them together as so:

1h Weapon, 26, 1/2/5/10/11.
2h Weapon, 19, 1/3/6/3/6.
Hands, 15, 3/3/4/1/4.

So T4 gloves, T2 1h/2h weapons and T4 2h weapons are pretty obvious missing spots so the stuff for there fits.

Another important thing I'd consider if making artifacts actually artifact worthy. This is especially a problem in some old artifacts compared to newer ones - they're simply not much more interesting than a good ego set.

An example of 'bad' artifacts like this would be things like Fire Dragon Shield (nothing but fire resist/damage), Dragonskull Helm (this is basically a dragonslayer ego+some saves and telepathy) or Wrathroot's Barkwood (just some resists).

'Good' artifacts on the other hand are things like Morrigor (the ability is incredibly interesting), Champion's Will (a class-defining sword that has a number of unique effects), Void Orb (great set of casting stats that fit a variety of classes) or Mnemonic (powerful, unique effect for mind classes).

Not every artifact needs to have some fantastic unique effect like the above, but future artifacts should definitely be more than a greater ego with a spin.


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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:40 pm 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5676
I think the t1/2 artifacts can get away with being like a greater ego with a twist. Most greater egos have a minimum level of 30 on their generation and getting a game changing artifact early that ends up crippling you later isn't great.

Edit: Alphabetised my above summary of suggested artifacts for easier comparison with list of existing tiers. Looks like I should bump the t3 cloak up to t4.

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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:25 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 2:10 pm
Posts: 106
low level Slings and Shots seems underrepesented. Making some of those with Chrono theme (even if TW can't use them properly) might make some sense.

Actually the Shot Artifacts could also use a shuffle so some of the current Shots are weaker and one or two are stronger so there aren't 4 t4s


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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:14 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5676
Should I continue working on these?

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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:00 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5676
Alternatively, I could look into pruning/adjusting some existing artifacts of dubious quality / overabundance?

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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:04 pm 
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Low Yeek

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:57 pm
Posts: 9
Great work and great ideas on all of these. I noticed this just after completing my first TW winner. I think I would have done better, or had a better theme had any of these items shown up.

As it was, I did a bit of shuffling with the vault to get a couple of items I needed. These would make that less necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:32 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:33 pm
Posts: 307
an artifact with an on-equip effect for arrows.

I think not one ammo item has an effect just from having it equipped, so this would be a new addition.

Maybe a chance to form a bowman arrow stitching per turn, + per char lvl, just from having the arrow equipped. could also have chances of some other chrono archer abilities added to that arrow stitching?

could even add a talent category to the character for the artifact and provide a point per character lvl to put into it to give options on how the warden in the quiver progresses
( : P )


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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:32 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:33 pm
Posts: 307
okay I made strong chrono artifact with a few unique things in it that I dont think are anywhere else.

1. it is a quiver that has a lot of good effects for the wielder thanks to an ancient keeper whose soul is in it. it projects temporal effects at your targets, some chance of different effects, and some with bursts, no matter what you attack the target with, such as melee, etc.

2. the quiver has a chance to....... (spoiler...)

3. for one turn on use of power 100, tap into a time when the Ancient Keeper was effected by Keeper of Reality Rally Call

4. bunch of minor related stuff.

code may not be perfect. probably is not...

http://pastebin.com/EU6SEA5f


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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:19 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5676
That is the most OP item suggestion I've ever seen.

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 Post subject: Re: Chrono Artifacts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:36 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:33 pm
Posts: 307
so its pretty good right?

so is there a certain part that might be too op?

and of course it can also be altered to draw more temporal enemies. I'd have to playtest it to see how it feels and how often they actually attack.

----

Another good idea for a Chrono item would be one that uses a high amount of paradox to be able to bypass walls that are undiggable and unteleportable, specific example being the slave pit place where there is the audience and we want to massacre them but there is no way to get to them. The artifact could replace all unpassable grids on a map with passable ones, like you are in a reality where the walls are passable, that kinda idea. I dont know how to do this but something like this is a good idea. There are some places that we are kept from that we need some way to get to.


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