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 Post subject: New Class idea: Priest
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:26 am 
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I am going to be a little dangerous here, DG is on record saying he liked the Priests in T2, so I hope that good things come out of this...

I want to redesign the Priest class.

Essentially in T2 Priests had Deity Spells, Mindcraft, and access to Schools granted by the Deity worshipped usually at a reduced rate. Consulting the ladder shows they were not a popular class.

How do we redesign the Class so that the parts that DG like are retained, whilst we boost their popularity and ensure they are a viable class to play?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:26 am 
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Further thoughts...

1) Players who were not Priests, could by worshiping a deity, gain access to a lot of very useful spells by undergoing a series of quests.

Rather than give spell access to classes that would not normally have them, why not give some other tangible reward? This means the spells that used to be readily available to worshipers now become the exclusive preserve of the Priests.

Priests themselves to gain access to Mage school spells might have to do the quests, and then choose the school they want access to. This would be the Priest reward.

2) The number of spells that priests had were, in comparison to the Mage class, very limited.

Let's expand the available selection and so make them more attractive to play.

3) Give them the ability to convert NPCs (sic), rather like the summoner...

Any more thoughts?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:03 pm 
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Master of Eyal

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Mhh but I'm notsure how a priest fits in tolkien lore. The Vala were never really worshipped.

What other "tangible" rewards do you think gods should provide ?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:23 pm 
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darkgod wrote:
Mhh but I'm not sure how a priest fits in Tolkien lore. The Vala were never really worshiped.
Not well at all, Tolkien was a devout Catholic, So we have a problem

darkgod wrote:
What other "tangible" rewards do you think gods should provide ?
An item blessed by the Gods, for example.

Basically not as powerful as having access to a spell list, but still worthwhile in its own right.


You comments got me to thinking: Should we have Priests at all?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:01 pm 
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actually there was one valar that was worshipped... Melkor <cue ominous music> (by black numoreans and easterlings)

And we could infer that others were worshiped (or at least honored)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:42 pm 
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Honored yes, not worshiped.
Eru was "kinda" worshipped by Numenoreans

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:54 pm 
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So do we eliminate them as a class? If so what do we replace them with?

I show below an excerpt from a letter, in which he explicitly states there is no such thing as worshipping Eru

Quote:
From Letter 156 To Robert Murray, SJ. (draft)

They thus escaped from 'religion' in a pagan sense, into a pure monotheist world, in which all things and beings and powers that might seem worshipful were not to be worshipped, not even the gods (the Valar), being only creatures of the One. And He was immensely remote.
The High Elves were exiles from the Blessed Realm of the Gods (after their own particular Elvish fall) and they had no 'religion' (or religious practices, rather) for those had been in the hands of the gods, praising and adoring Eru 'the One', Ilúvatar the Father of All on the Mt. of Aman.

The Númenóreans thus began a great new good, and as monotheists; but like the Jews (only more so) with only one physical centre of 'worship': the summit of the mountain Meneltarma 'Pillar of Heaven' – literally, for they did not conceive of the sky as a divine residence – in the centre of Númenor; but it had no building and no temple, as all such things had evil associations.


And more:

Quote:
Letter 165 to Haughton Mifflin Co.

It is not 'about' anything but itself. Certainly it has no allegorical intentions, general, particular, or topical, moral, religious, or political. The only criticism that annoyed me was one that it 'contained no religion' (and 'no Women', but that does not matter, and is not true anyway). It is a monotheistic world of 'natural theology'. The odd fact that there are no churches, temples, or religious rites and ceremonies, is simply part of the historical climate depicted. It will be sufficiently explained, if (as now seems likely) the Silmarillion and other legends of the First and Second Ages are published. I am in any case myself a Christian; but the 'Third Age' was not a Christian world.

Letter 211 to Rhona Beare

The Númenóreans of Gondor were proud, peculiar, and archaic, and I think are best pictured in (say) Egyptian terms. In many ways they resembled 'Egyptians' – the love of, and power to construct, the gigantic and massive. And in their great interest in ancestry and in tombs. (But not of course in 'theology' : in which respect they were Hebraic and even more puritan – but this would take long to set out: to explain indeed why there is practically no overt 'religion', or rather religious acts or places or ceremonies among the 'good' or anti-Sauron peoples in The Lord of the Rings.) I think the crown of Gondor (the S. Kingdom) was very tall, like that of Egypt, but with wings attached, not set straight back but at an angle.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:21 am 
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Master of Eyal

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I thin we can keep gods and followers, but yes priests is maybe going too far.
As for the replacement, as you said, they were not much played anyway ?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:51 pm 
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Would it be worthwhile expanding Mindcraft?

Slightly different approach to Mages, Mindcrafters use their own bodies to power spells. The obvious source of power to cast a spell is HPs, so high HPs becomes a must.

For the original concept, ICE Rolemaster Mentalist is where I drew the concept from...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:39 pm 
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Dragon Age has something similar, Blood Mages, which is indeed a fine idea.
As for mindcraft, I was thinking they could use sanity to cast?
But anyway mindcraft must find its niche since nwo mages dont have to carry spellbooks.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:48 pm 
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Sanity? Cool! Much underrated and so necessary later on!

Especially with Sanity drainers later on.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:53 pm 
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:)
Still they need their own niche :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:43 pm 
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So I have taken the original spells and rearranged them as follows:

Travel School
1. Minor Displacement (Level 3) Teleports you a short distance.
* At level 25 it grants the ability to create void jumpgates.

2. Major Displacement (Level 7) Teleports you a good distance.
* At level 30 it also banishes the monsters around you.

3. Telekinesis (Level 28) Projects a wave of pure telekinetic force from your body, damaging and with a chance of banishing monsters. Not sure about this one...

Plus other travelling spells such as Recall and PT.

School of Knowledge
1. Precognition (Level 1) Detects monster minds around you.
* At level 5 it also detects traps
* At level 15 it also allows you to see invisible monsters for a time.
* At level 20 it maps out the surrounding area.
* At level 25 it gives you ESP for a time.
* At level 30 it also detects objects and treasure.
* At level 45 it fully shows the entire level.

2. Psychometry (Level 15) Senses the quality of an item.
* At level 40 it identifies an item.

Combat School
1. Neural blast (Level 2) Fires a bolt or beam, to stun and damage monsters.
2. Domination (Level 9) It attempts to dominate the minds of your foes, scaring them.
* At level 30 it attempts to charm monsters.

3. Pulverise (Level 11) Fires pure sound at your opponent, crushing their brains.
4. Character Armour (Level 13) Raises a physical shield around your body.
* At level 15 it also grants resistance to acid.
* At level 20 it also grants resistance to fire.
* At level 25 it also grants resistance to cold.
* At level 30 it also grants resistance to electricity.
* At level 35 it also grants resistance to poison.
5. Mindwave (Level 18) Blasts the minds of monsters close to you.
* At level 25 it affect all monsters in line of sight.
6. Psychic Drain (Level 25) Drains the life of your foes and adds to your sanity reserves.

Now give them the Priests ability with weapons and we may have a new Class. This needs fleshing out, replace mana with Sanity above and this might be a good basis to go with...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:02 am 
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Master of Eyal

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How do you see that using talents ?
One talent per spell ?
Only 3 talents (one per school) grant spells as they go up ?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:09 am 
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I have been thinking about the above, and really all I have done is created a new form of magic user... albeit of a slightly different flavour. I have been scratching my head and trying to come up with something else!

Then I saw your post, DG, and yes I agree with that. One Talent per spell, and as with every other class you get two picks per level. Adds a tension to the choices on levelling up, do I go for Arms or Spells or whatever...

So in essence they have the three magic schools, plus a weapons school, plus armour school for a total of 5 schools.

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