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 Post subject: Alchemist Rework
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:27 am 
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Low Yeek

Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:14 pm
Posts: 9
Mainly there a few things I want out of the alchemy skill in 2.3.x that I DON'T want to have to make an alchemist for.
Or essentially: Alchemists can make exploding potions but need FF for disarming.

Everyone else can't make exploding potions. This got me to thinking: Alchemy should definitely be split up much akin to how Geomancy is today. Brew a potion, making a wand, writing a scroll? These can all be attributed to different skill sets, have far different uses, and could appeal to different interest groups. Scrolls have some of the most basic utilities to all classes and can be VITAL to non-mages for survival, wands are fully offensive (for the most part), potions affect only the self.

So perhaps a split as such...

Alchemy: basic understanding of the underlying structures of things. Locked to alchemist class only. Allows transmutation of the current essences at risk of losing them. Also increases your level for the below skills just like geomancy.
--Potions: A+B=C or A+A=D kind of formula for most potions mixing. (You've learned how to distill 2 light wounds into a critical wounds!). Advanced levels may allow essences into straight potions.
--Staves/Wands/Rods: You can store your magic for later use. Only store spells you can create or perhaps cast using a scroll? Drains your mana. Higher levels of this skill enable a higher CASTING level for the staff/wand/rod. Your weak mana flow is amplified by the powerful wand!
--Scrolls: Saves a one time usage of spells you can cast. You can create copies of scrolls you already have. Higher levels enable you to cast spells you can't cast. I can't solve the quadratic equation in my head, but a little paper might be all I need...
--Amulets/Rings: GEMS. You can store mighty energy in precious gems.

so on so forth. Perhaps fighter classes could have access to potions or so on so forth to avoid the neccesity of things like scumming erebor and helcaraxe? IMHO these just slow down midlevels decrease enjoyment and encourage boredom kills for filling out a kit- and keeping it stocked. Going back to helcaraxe for healing potions when your in angband is sad... going back to go to the void? Sadder.


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 Post subject: Re: Alchemist Rework
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:30 am 
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Reaper

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2003 11:49 pm
Posts: 1715
Location: West Virginia
Good ideas.

I would add that sub-alchemy skills should depend not only on alchemy but also on another skill. Your success making and charging wands would depend on both Magic Device and Alchemy/Device. If you are going to make that vampiric blade of chaos of westernesse, you had better have great Weaponmastery as well as Alchemy/Weapon. Water would help with potions.

Magic Device is currently useless once you get into the charge-draining monster levels. Wands and staves are rendered useless with one hit and rods don't have enough power to be useful. So charge draining should be changed also. (I think that this is a general game issue- two large classes of objects and a skill become useless after level 30 or so.)

The biggest problem with alchemists now is that they are incredibly fun to play early on, but once you create an uber-artifact or two there is no challenge left. There should be an increasing experience cost to raising p-val so that it becomes essentially impossible after about 10.


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 Post subject: Re: Alchemist Rework
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:04 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 12:45 am
Posts: 85
Location: Seattle
IIRC another problem with wands is that their damage simply doesn't scale adequately to deal with nastier monsters. Combine that with the chance for destruction on rcharge and they're simply nonviable as a damage source. I suspect most non-mages end up putting a dozen or so points into magic device to be able to reliably use rods and artifact activations (if I can use the Crown of Gondor in combat reliably, then I don't have to chug so many healing potions...and a rod of Disarming is a heck of a lot cheaper than the Disarming skill). However, beyond that there's not really any point to them.

Rebalancing wands and staves is a major issue in itself, though, and is mostly beside the point of the suggestions made above. They sound reasonable to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Alchemist Rework
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:38 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:48 pm
Posts: 482
The underpowered devices things appears to be a remnant from the old days. The devices were balanced when monsters weren't leveled and monsters hadn't had their HP changed, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Alchemist Rework
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:20 am 
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Halfling

Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 12:45 am
Posts: 85
Location: Seattle
You must mean the old old days, then, since they've been useless damage-wise ever since Angband 2.4 frog-knows (a.k.a. the first widespread version). I can't remember if they were any good back in the Moria days; then again, given how old I was at the time I doubt I'd've been able to use them effectively anyway!


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