ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Everything about ToME
It is currently Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:12 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Do you think being able to change classes is a good idea?
Yes 14%  14%  [ 4 ]
No 48%  48%  [ 14 ]
Maybe - depends 28%  28%  [ 8 ]
Get a life 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
I'd rather have a beer 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 29
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:43 pm 
Offline
Sher'Tul

Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 1106
Location: Nargothrond
IIRC someone has an alchemist with ring that gives 238 extra attacks...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:01 am 
Offline
Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 7:18 pm
Posts: 2438
Location: California (or sometimes Erebor)
That was accomplished by exploiting an overflow bug though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:37 pm 
Offline
Sher'Tul

Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 1106
Location: Nargothrond
Yes, but still a example of overpowering - no other class could exploit it!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:14 pm 
Offline
Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 7:18 pm
Posts: 2438
Location: California (or sometimes Erebor)
No, it's an example of a bug.

Not that the terms "overpowered" or "unbalanced" mean anything around here.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:29 pm 
Offline
Sher'Tul

Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 1106
Location: Nargothrond
After all, this class is broken so there's not much of a point to discuss about it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:00 am 
Offline
Higher

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:55 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Upstate, NY
Well the "No"s have it. :(


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:33 am 
Offline
Wyrmic

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:31 pm
Posts: 281
Neil wrote:
Not that the terms "overpowered" or "unbalanced" mean anything around here.

Why don't make this statement sticky?
You could use a shortcut then...
Or even introduce a new abbreviation: TiNb (ToME is NOT balanced)? :twisted:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:58 am 
Offline
Archmage

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 5:07 am
Posts: 427
Location: In Mirkwood, spider hunting
Possibly adding aNsTiNB..

work it out...

:)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:41 am 
Offline
Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 7:18 pm
Posts: 2438
Location: California (or sometimes Erebor)
Rubinstein wrote:
Neil wrote:
Not that the terms "overpowered" or "unbalanced" mean anything around here.

Why don't make this statement sticky?
You could use a shortcut then...
Or even introduce a new abbreviation: TiNb (ToME is NOT balanced)? :twisted:


You've completely misunderstood me.

What I'm trying to say is that many people here when they say words like "unbalanced" and "overpowered" are using them incorrectly, not that such principles aren't taken into account in ToME development.

Let's use you as an example. What do *you* mean by saying ToME isn't "balanced"? Please clarify or retract the statement.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:57 am 
Offline
Wyrmic

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:31 pm
Posts: 281
Neil wrote:
You've completely misunderstood me.

Seems so, because that
Quote:
What I'm trying to say is that many people here when they say words like "unbalanced" and "overpowered" are using them incorrectly, not that such principles aren't taken into account in ToME development.

wasn't something I could read behind your short statements about balance.

Quote:
Let's use you as an example. What do *you* mean by saying ToME isn't "balanced"? Please clarify or retract the statement.

Did I really say that? If so, please show me the lines, probably *you* got *me* wrong here.
I even don't know whether there is an "official" definition of "game balance" but I have my
very own picture of balance, though:
It's not about one race/class combination being easier than another and it's not about fairness.
My personal definition of balance includes little details like prices for instance:
If in the middle of the game you have already so much money, that you don't know what to do with it.
Perfect balance (it's an ideal, I know) would mean that in *all* stages of the game you would have
just enough money as you need, only a little bit more or less.
(probably not the best example: So far I never saw a C-RPG were this was done right)

Or role-playing issues falling under that term (again: my personal definition):
You probably got me wrong after the previous "axemaster discussions".
I don't have a problem if axemasters being harder to play than other warrior classes, but if
an axemaster is doing better with non-axes along half of the game, then role-playing and thus balance
feels just broken to me.
Imagine you choose a spellcaster but your best offensive weapon is not a spell but an x-bow...

I could add some more examples but I hope you got the point...
Since my thoughts about balance are rather subjective I can't imagine that I was arguing about that.
At least not here in t-o-m-e.net.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:06 am 
Offline
Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 7:18 pm
Posts: 2438
Location: California (or sometimes Erebor)
Rubinstein wrote:
Neil wrote:
Let's use you as an example. What do *you* mean by saying ToME isn't "balanced"? Please clarify or retract the statement.

Did I really say that? If so, please show me the lines, probably *you* got *me* wrong here.


I wasn't sure what you were saying. That's why I asked for a clarification.

Thank you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:51 pm 
Quote:
If in the middle of the game you have already so much money, that you don't know what to do with it.

Maybe thieves may appear while you are in town based solely on your gold quantity (not level). Or groups of 'p' mosnters. Imagine a grand master thief accompanied by some ninjas and a grand mystic or two :twisted: appearing in town if you have say 1M$. If you are still level 20 or so it won't be very pleasant. Maybe the master thief may ask you something in the lines of "Your money or your live!". :twisted:


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:35 pm 
Offline
Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 6:52 pm
Posts: 937
Location: Sharden
words can be so tricky. if a certain combo fits you like a glove, this would make the game somewhat easier for you. would that be unbalancing?

so far i've got the impression the game follows the TANSTAAFL principle quite well.

_________________
if everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:43 pm 
Offline
Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:50 pm
Posts: 3427
Location: Virginia, USA
Teber wrote:
words can be so tricky. if a certain combo fits you like a glove, this would make the game somewhat easier for you. would that be unbalancing?

so far i've got the impression the game follows the TANSTAAFL principle quite well.


Good point, Teber. I'm stil looking forward to seeing what happens to the rune and alchemy stuff in new versions, but aside from that, I'm happy with what I've got, at least as far into the game as I've gotten so far.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:43 am 
Offline
Wyrmic

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:31 pm
Posts: 281
I don't think so, Teber.
Even if no one seems to be sure about what "game balance" actually means, it should be at least something provided by the game itself, independent from individual playing style.

(Btw, what is the TANSTAAFL principle?)

Right now something else came into my mind which I unfortunately forgot in my list of examples above:
It's the availability of items in certain game stages.
From my few previous games I've got the impression (assuming that I wasn't just lucky) that I've got too much *superb* items too early, followed by a large gap were all new artifacts turned out to be useless compared to my actual equipment.
As a result there wasn't much left than selling all that newly found artifacts which again resulted in an exploding wealth in the late game.
That IMO is a serious issue according to my conception of "game balance".
Don't get me wrong:
A really lucky find should be always possible but the probability should be much lower.
And what you get should be better syncronized with the danger you have to take for.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group