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Predetermined drops?
Poll ended at Sat Oct 18, 2003 7:52 pm
Yea 65%  65%  [ 11 ]
Nay 35%  35%  [ 6 ]
Whinny 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 17
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:52 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 10:04 pm
Posts: 924
Location: A mountain range east of Bree
This one's pretty simple: certain monsters drop one or more predertermined items, along with the ordinary drop. Barbazus, for example, should always drop heavy, sharp, highly enchanted glaives (one per demon). Orcs should drop poisoned scimitars, and their archers should drop shortbows and daggers or maine gauches. War trolls should probably drop maces. Fundin Bluecloak should drop his chain-mace; Gelugons should drop freezing spears; and Greater Balrogs should, of course, drop their famous (and horrendously cursed - not to mention temporary) flaming whips, along with a random, highly enchanted flaming weapon (not temporary, but almost as badly cursed).

Of course, items such as these shouldn't be too powerful - the idea is to add flavor. Predetermined drops should be largely useless to chars above the requisite level to kill the monsters that drop them.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:55 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:50 pm
Posts: 3427
Location: Virginia, USA
How about doing that *some* of the time? I think if it always happened that way, I'd quickly get bored, as half the fun is (almost) never knowing what you're going to get.

A number of uniques already drop predetermined stuff, after all; that's good enough for me, but I wouldn't mind the added flavor of say, frequently putting a poison flag on whatever the RNG tosses out for an Orc drop .... presuming the poison flag is compatible with whatever is rolled up, of course.
I'd think any weapon with resist poison probably would NOT have a poison flag. Or would it? (Maybe the weapons' maker figures, well, you'll nick yourself eventually with that blade so I better put rpoison on.... :D )


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:06 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:02 am
Posts: 1087
Location: Somewhere west of Nevada...
I like this idea in principle, but Maylith is right that such predetermined drops would become tiresome.

A better idea, I think, would be to randomize it somewhat. Each monster has a chance of dropping an armor or weapon type dependent on its body slots. This way, any orc killed has a chance of dropping a random weapon and a piece of armor, whereas dragons would be more likely to drop rings. Ettins might drop two helmets, etc.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:48 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:39 am
Posts: 414
Quote:
A better idea, I think, would be to randomize it somewhat. Each monster has a chance of dropping an armor or weapon type dependent on its body slots. This way, any orc killed has a chance of dropping a random weapon and a piece of armor, whereas dragons would be more likely to drop rings. Ettins might drop two helmets, etc.


Perhaps use the equipment slots that a posessor would get to determine drops, as this information would already be in the database, then top it off with a smaller number of random drops, for regular items. Ie:

For (each_monster_equipment_slot)
{
if (random) { drop appropriate item }
}
drop_regular_items


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:21 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:02 am
Posts: 1087
Location: Somewhere west of Nevada...
evilmrhenry wrote:

Perhaps use the equipment slots that a posessor would get to determine drops, as this information would already be in the database, then top it off with a smaller number of random drops, for regular items. Ie:


Exactly - a monster has the highest chance of dropping something it was (supposedly) using.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:49 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 10:04 pm
Posts: 924
Location: A mountain range east of Bree
Which leads us to armies of wimpy yeeks wielding not-so-wimpy wands of Fireflash... :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 12:44 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 8:55 pm
Posts: 80
Tachyon wrote:
Which leads us to armies of wimpy yeeks wielding not-so-wimpy wands of Fireflash... :twisted:


Well, let's see their magic device skill first. Wimpy yeeks with 2000% fail rate wands of fireflash aren't a bother :D


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:48 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 10:04 pm
Posts: 924
Location: A mountain range east of Bree
Yeek soldiers probably would be trained in the use of magic devices. Nonetheless, I think you're right - they would more likely stick with wands of Manathrust and Nox Cloud.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 3:41 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 5:07 am
Posts: 427
Location: In Mirkwood, spider hunting
Good idea... I somehow doubt that Novice Mages would REALLY drop Two-Handed Great Flails...

Just to THEME it a bit would be good... Mages drop books and wands, warriors drop heavy armour and weapons, thieves drop traps [1]...

Ego-ing the weapons is a bit over the top, but maybe a monsterlvl-20 percentage chance of applying the ego-type to any applicable items?

(Maybe a Shambling Mound could drop Slime Molds!)

(Or maybe even spawn 1d4 Green Molds!)

(Or maybe even 1d6 Death M... whoops... shhhh... DG may be listening...)




[1] Just as a sidebar, will theives/ego-monster-rogues gain the player's trapping ability from the new-luafied GUSS? Makes sense that they should be able to lay traps (not the spell that creates traps around the player... a GUSS spell that creates one (1) trap on the square that the rogue is currently on) to foul up the player's progress... imagine it: your barbarian swordmaster chasing the last, cowardly remnant of a band of thieves down the corridor, you have him trapped... "A puff of smoke rises at the Squint-Eyed Rogue's feet", and you spend the next fifty turns trying to get through the cunningly laid snare whilst the Rogue merrily skips off round the next corner...


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:18 am 
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Higher

Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:42 am
Posts: 53
Location: Italy
:!: Monsters dropping predetermined items will cause a specific-montster-hunt to search that kind of item. :(

I think monsters should keep dropping random items; and not only (but in the most cases yes) items they could wear.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:36 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:22 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Finland
I think it makes sense for novice a mage to carry a two-handed flail. They have simply found it in the dungeon and decided carry it around to maybe sell later. Randomness is good.

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 Post subject: Random or fixed drops
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:10 pm 
Maybe it would be better to simulate a Equipment/Inventory pair, but with these added rules:

1) Equipment drops are found only acting on the corpse, maybe at first 'H'acking, instead of raw meat. So it would be dangerous to steal rings or armor from a dead dragon. AND they will be only of type allowed by the race equipment slots.

2) These should be attinent with the random flags of the monster, such as, if a monster gets a random high resist, then it surely will drop something with that resist, etc.

3) Of course, if there is no corpse, you cannot spoil it, so no equipment drops.

4) Inventory drops are random, but lower-level than eq-drops, and of kinds attinent, except in special cases (some object "valuable" by itself) to the class of the monster. Of course a Novice Mindcrafter wouldn't wield a 2Hand Grand-Sword of Super-Heaviness, but she WOULD rather carry it for it is a valuable item!

5) It is better few drops and good, than much and bad. This speeds up a little gameplay, at least when you cannot auto-kill any non special object. So, it's better that monsters leave corpses, and almost no inv-drops, you add the risk of spoiling, but for the sake of richness!

So maybe corpse-preservation will be useful to non-necros, just as in other threads someone is looking for a usefulness of "passive" alchemy for non-alchemists (like infusing or elem-branding of weapons).


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:17 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 5:07 am
Posts: 427
Location: In Mirkwood, spider hunting
Vaguely appropos to this, in the Yahoo ML, there's a discussion about making the inventories/items carried of monsters viewable as a menu rather than "carrying a foo -more-".

If we could extend this to the BODIES of monsters when they're dead, it'd certainly save a lot of floorspace...

Granted, this would only apply to monsters who LEFT corpses... otherwise you could assumed that the monster just went... splat...

And that their booty was splattered across the nearby area...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:50 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 10:04 pm
Posts: 924
Location: A mountain range east of Bree
As Javier said, some monsters might require hacking. Not Sorcerors and such, but things like gelatinous cubes... Basically, if you want gold from a cube, you'd better have acid resist!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:11 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:22 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Finland
But if you have killed a gelatinous cube, isn't there a fairly high change you have hacked/blasted/charred it apart already? :)

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