ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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 Post subject: ToME 3.0 Development
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:02 am 
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Keeper

Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:08 pm
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I'd make a thread in the Staff Discussion, but I'd like to not exclude everyone.

So, this has been in development for quite some time now. Where do things stand? How far have we gotten with the code?

As I've said before, I don't know much about coding, but I think I can figure the LUA out if someone would take some time to explain it to me.

What I need to know is what's already been done and what still needs to be done? Lord Bucket mentioned a to-do list. Do we have that somewhere on the forums?

I would like to see this project seen to completion. I know that DG hasn't been around, but we all play ToME and greatly enjoy it. I want to see the next version come out. I recommend that we start working on it again, but this time, we finish what we start. I'm willing to help do whatever is within my knowledge and ability to do. Who else is willing to throw in with this?

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Last edited by Xandor Tik'Roth on Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:11 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:22 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Finland
Here is my rough suggestion for the T-Engine priorities:

Requirements for the beta:

Features: (I think these are fairly important)

- Make it possible to stun monsters. (Or is this a module thing? I think it's common enough to be in the engine.)
- Allow Lua control for monster and item rerolling
- Make randarts possible again.
- Make monster pits customizable.

Big, game-changing bugs: (not absolutely must before the beta, but should have high priority)

- Make breeders breed again.
- Allow living uniques appear more than once per play session.
- Make the map edge code really work. (Travel leading to the correct edges, ambushes in the middle of the square, STar Wars style wildernesses possible without pain...)

Requirements for 3.0: (important bugfixes now that the beta is feature-complete)
- Hunt down and fix (most of) the crashes and freezes.
- Hunt down and fix (most of) the memory leaks
- Hunt down and fix whatever causes broken panic saves.
- Fix the "first item allocation is always 1" bug. (if confirmed)
- Make store action costs work.
- Fix projection effects for extended colors.
- Make monster memory and options loaded when using an old savefile but not using the quickstart.
- Fix the player inventory stacking bug.
- Make items in a store to be always in the right order.
- Make it possible to wish for capitalized egos.
- Fix player placement on returning to SAVE_LEVELs.
- Fix recalling to town generating dungeon monsters.

To do sometime:
- Make the SDL interface have the refined handling of the X11 one.
- Add background colors for the ASCII. (My pet feature request, although I have to admit it isn't that important.)
- Make it possible for the flag MONST_CAN_ENTER to allow monsters enter squares they couldn't otherwise.
- Add a way to specify the number of generated stairs.
- Allow more than one guardian per dungeon.
- Make resizing a terminal repaint it in SDL.
- Make death messages customizable.
- Make weight units customizable.
- Make ambient music repeat properly.
- Fix various music bugs.
- Get dungeon towns working.
- Fix monster escorts generated with opposing monsters
- Make wilderness roads better and no longer ever made of strange substances.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:05 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:12 am
Posts: 203
Good list Nerdanel. Here are my take on it:

Note : I won't be able to work on pretty much anything ToME related until ~January 20th due to exams (big ones).

Nerdanel wrote:
Features: (I think these are fairly important)

- Make it possible to stun monsters. (Or is this a module thing? I think it's common enough to be in the engine.)
- Allow Lua control for monster and item rerolling
- Make randarts possible again.
- Make monster pits customizable.

- Stun is already implemented in ToME as a timed effect. I haven't checked if it work in game though.
- The monster rerolling I have a good idea on how to do it, although I will have to discuss it with DG first. As for the items, that code was obsolete (I deleted it if I recall well), and it is already done in LUA.
- Randarts could be fun to implement. Maybe I could give it a try, but I believe it should be left in module-land.
- Monster pits can already be customized by making them vaults instead.

Quote:
Big, game-changing bugs: (not absolutely must before the beta, but should have high priority)

- Make breeders breed again.
- Allow living uniques appear more than once per play session.
- Make the map edge code really work. (Travel leading to the correct edges, ambushes in the middle of the square, STar Wars style wildernesses possible without pain...)

- Breeding should either be implemented as an AI or as a spell (I would prefer the later). That way the modules designers will have more control over the breeding behavior.
- Living uniques (and artifacts) not reappearing is also a must in my mind.

Quote:
Requirements for 3.0: (important bugfixes now that the beta is feature-complete)
- Hunt down and fix (most of) the crashes and freezes.
- Hunt down and fix (most of) the memory leaks
- Hunt down and fix whatever causes broken panic saves.
- Fix the "first item allocation is always 1" bug. (if confirmed)
- Make store action costs work.
- Fix projection effects for extended colors.
- Make monster memory and options loaded when using an old savefile but not using the quickstart.
- Fix the player inventory stacking bug.
- Make items in a store to be always in the right order.
- Make it possible to wish for capitalized egos.
- Fix player placement on returning to SAVE_LEVELs.
- Fix recalling to town generating dungeon monsters.

- The projection effects for extender colors is easy to fix. Again, I'm wary of fixing it without asking for DG input as my fix could cause problem when tiles will be implemented.
- Monster memory and options from an old savefile work for me (I'm using babyface if that matters).

My take at the beta is that modules should never break during it. So every change that could affect modules should be done before it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:39 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:22 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Finland
Marcotte wrote:
- Stun is already implemented in ToME as a timed effect. I haven't checked if it work in game though.


The problem here is making the STUN damagetype (used by barehanded combat) affect monsters instead of producing a Lua error. But perhaps that's doable only in module code. I need to recheck.

Quote:
- Randarts could be fun to implement. Maybe I could give it a try, but I believe it should be left in module-land.


The engine already checks for and processes randart_parts data. It just doesn't do anything with it. Clearly the generation of randarts from module-specified parts was on the to-do list. I also think it would be useful for many different modules.

Quote:
- Monster pits can already be customized by making them vaults instead.


There is still the problem of predefined vaults. At the moment Zothiqband generates otherworlder pits with Venusians, Martians, etc. thinking them orc pits. I've also seen "chapels" with priestly monsters hanging with robots and the like, since A is no longer used for angels.

I think we can have the "pit" thing separate from the "vault" thing since a pit is only a bunch of monsters packed into a room of always the same size and vault is a much more complex entity.

A pit can be defined with level, rarity, and monsters allowable. We can let the C code do the rest.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:43 pm 
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Reaper

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:26 am
Posts: 440
Location: México
Will official development decisions be made in the list or here in the forum? In any case I suggest that Xandor creates a ToME development subforum.

Quote:
- Make randarts possible again.


I think randart is a must-have, but it's not critical, so it should be left out for another time.

Quote:
- Make weight units customizable.


I already fixed that one and I submited a patch a long time ago, but it was completely ignored, I could commit it as is though.

So, are we planning alpha19 or we will release beta1 next? I think it's a good time for a beta.

Quote:
My take at the beta is that modules should never break during it. So every change that could affect modules should be done before it.


What things are so horribly broken that needs an API change in your opinion? The wilderness system that was discussed earlier is one, what else?

And with all that, WHEN are we aiming to release beta1?

PS: Putting this list in a Wiki would be the ideal... if just the wiki weren't broken beyond hope...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:08 pm
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Hmm... good call.

We should open up the development to whomever is trustworthy. Since you guys have had more of a presence here than I have, I'll leave such decisions to you. What I don't want is some jerk who thinks it'll be funny to screw up the code for his pleasure. But again, I trust that you guys will deal with that.

I'll go ahead and make the forum for it. Just let me know what forums you'll need and I'll put it up.

And I took a brief look at that list. As I said, I've got very little experience with compiling, but I'd like to have a hand in this somewhere. Where can I help?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:12 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:12 am
Posts: 203
elcugo wrote:
So, are we planning alpha19 or we will release beta1 next? I think it's a good time for a beta.

Quote:
My take at the beta is that modules should never break during it. So every change that could affect modules should be done before it.


What things are so horribly broken that needs an API change in your opinion? The wilderness system that was discussed earlier is one, what else?

And with all that, WHEN are we aiming to release beta1?


I would first release alpha19, as quick as possible (beginning of February). Then we should have time to make compatibility breaking changes for the beta1. (Though I'm not sure what exactly these would entails...)

Xandor : I see you have created a Tome3 bugs subforum. It would be preferable if most bugs-related discussion be done on the Bug Tracker.


Last edited by Marcotte on Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:12 am 
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Reaper

Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 1534
Location: East of the sun, west of the moon
http://wiki.t-o-m-e.net/Developers_Corner/ToME3_%27Job%27_offers

is one list I can find easily of what can be done, and I know there is a few more, but I dont have the time atm to look for them...

which is also the main reason I probably wont be able to help much even though I do know C/C++. The next few months are going to be hectic for me. Otherwise I would try to be more involved.

maybe you could help with the item descriptions or help madmonk with the dialog, <just throwing ideas out, maybe ask some people if they want help with what they are doing>

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:27 am 
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Reaper

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:21 am
Posts: 2257
Location: New Zealand
Shoob wrote:
http://wiki.t-o-m-e.net/Developers_Corner/ToME3_%27Job%27_offers

is one list I can find easily of what can be done, and I know there is a few more, but I dont have the time atm to look for them...

which is also the main reason I probably wont be able to help much even though I do know C/C++. The next few months are going to be hectic for me. Otherwise I would try to be more involved.

maybe you could help with the item descriptions or help madmonk with the dialog, <just throwing ideas out, maybe ask some people if they want help with what they are doing>
You are right about help, I have been having a hectic last 3 months, no Internet connection, no family (I have been travelling extensively) and thus no time!

I ave taken job offers and work organisation and posted the list in the development section...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:44 am 
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Reaper

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:26 am
Posts: 440
Location: México
Marcotte wrote:
elcugo wrote:
So, are we planning alpha19 or we will release beta1 next? I think it's a good time for a beta.



I would first release alpha19, as quick as possible (beginning of February). Then we should have time to make compatibility breaking changes for the beta1. (Though I'm not sure what exactly these would entails...)


Ok, so alpha19 next. But I think this alpha should be definitively the last one (hello 19 alphas?)

Quote:
Xandor : I see you have created a Tome3 bugs subforum. It would be preferable if most bugs-related discussion be done on the Bug Tracker.


I agree, having bug information in many places is a nighmare for the bug tiragers and can cause some bugs to go unoticed. I strongly suggest that Xandor deletes the T3 bug subforum. And while we are at it, I also sugest to rename "Tome 3.0 development" to just "Tome development", after all ToME2 is still being developed and there will [hopefully] be a ToME 4.0, ToME 3.1, ToME 5.7, etc.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:57 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:26 am
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Location: México
Xandor wrote:
What I don't want is some jerk who thinks it'll be funny to screw up the code for his pleasure. But again, I trust that you guys will deal with that.

Don't worry about that, these events are rare and if it happens then his or hr "contributions" can be just reversed and he or she gets banned.

Quote:
I'll go ahead and make the forum for it. Just let me know what forums you'll need and I'll put it up.


My sugested structure would be:
=ToMe development=
==General==
(Stuff about developement of the game as a whole, such as ToDo list and other plans)
==T-Engine==
(For discussions about the low level game engine)
==ToME module==
(Discussion about the actual game content, objects, monsters, etc.)

I would rename the ToDo subforum to general, it's more useful that way.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:16 am 
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Elculgo: Done. I've made the changes you requested. Post away.

Shoob: Excellent suggestion. I've got quite a bit of experience in the area of writing. Madmonk, if you would be so kind as to point me in the direction of the files that could use some editing, I'd be more than happy to assist

Marcotte: Excellent suggestion. As long as someone is keeping track of the bugs that are being submitted, then I see no problems with this.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:59 pm 
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Marcotte wrote:
Xandor : I see you have created a Tome3 bugs subforum. It would be preferable if most bugs-related discussion be done on the Bug Tracker.
I have created a short sticky about where to posts bugs and so on in 2 of the three forums. Does someone want to make the T-Engine thread a sticky as well.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:08 pm
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madmonk, you should have full moderator powers now... are you unable to sticky a topic?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:06 pm 
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Reaper

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:21 am
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Location: New Zealand
Xandor wrote:
madmonk, you should have full moderator powers now... are you unable to sticky a topic?
Yes, I have been missed from Tome development>Tome module...

If that is done I can sticky the reporting bug thread.

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